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Author Topic: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed  (Read 8367 times)

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Offline Dannyboy53

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RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« on: May 14, 2016, 10:12:01 PM »
Yesterday I decided to burn some powder in my RIA .45 ACP. I was shooting some reloads, 185 gr JHP of which I have already shot almost two boxes. Even my 200 grain FMJ are hanging up. I don't know what has changed but they are hanging up on the feed ramp.

I got three new magazines today, same thing with them so I'm sure it must be the rounds, the OAL is okay and it's once fired brass so the case length is okay. The recoil spring is a new 18lb spring. I'm at a loss, it makes no sense...any ideas are welcome.  pullhair1










« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 10:22:38 PM by Dannyboy53 »
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2016, 10:49:22 PM »
I dunno without looking at it in person.   :-\
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Offline running-man

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2016, 11:00:17 PM »
I don't know if it's just me or not, but those cases sure look like they flare out quite a bit where the bullet seats.  That last photo especially.  What do they mic to Danny?  Are they getting hung up on the proud edge of the forward case lip maybe?
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2016, 11:15:07 PM »
My gut tells me the feed lips are not allowing the nose of the bullet to tip up early enough.
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Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2016, 11:29:23 PM »
Quote from: running-man on May 14, 2016, 11:00:17 PM
I don't know if it's just me or not, but those cases sure look like they flare out quite a bit where the bullet seats.  That last photo especially.  What do they mic to Danny?  Are they getting hung up on the proud edge of the forward case lip maybe?

Running-man I see what you are talking about but they mic out at .472" - .473". With my FMJ RN cartridges I always set my seating die on a factory round then fine tune it on the next round or two.  Anyway, when the cartridge jams up ony the bullet is touching the feed ramp, the case lip is free and clear. So much so that I could pass a sheet of paper through the gap.
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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 01:54:00 AM »
Before we go and over complicate things with measurements of this and that, tweaking magazine lips, screwing stuff up, load formulas and what not..

 My thoughts, you said the ammo worked in it before, and the recoil spring is the only change since. Try regular 230gr fmj in it first, this would verify pistol and new spring function, then swap to the lighter factory spring with lighter weight ammo. The higher tension spring with a lower than normal weight round could cause it to choke up cycling. The factory spring is a 14-16 pounder right, that new spring you installed is 18pounds, and with the lighter bullet, the two may not mix well.

It's just a simple thought from a simple mind... :)
It's a quick easy swap, cost nothing, and you get the excuse to go shooting thumb1
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Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2016, 02:03:39 AM »
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on May 14, 2016, 11:15:07 PM
My gut tells me the feed lips are not allowing the nose of the bullet to tip up early enough.

What I failed to mention earlier is I have some Tulammo factory 230gr ammo that works flawlessly in the old and new magazines. So I'm sure it is the rounds for whatever reason, and that is what has me puzzled.

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Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2016, 02:14:52 AM »
Quote from: Greasemonkey on May 15, 2016, 01:54:00 AM
Before we go and over complicate things with measurements of this and that, tweaking magazine lips, screwing stuff up, load formulas and what not..

 My thoughts, you said the ammo worked in it before, and the recoil spring is the only change since. Try regular 230gr fmj in it first, this would verify pistol and new spring function, then swap to the lighter factory spring with lighter weight ammo. The higher tension spring with a lower than normal weight round could cause it to choke up cycling. The factory spring is a 14-16 pounder right, that new spring you installed is 18pounds, and with the lighter bullet, the two may not mix well.

It's just a simple thought from a simple mind... :)
It's a quick easy swap, cost nothing, and you get the excuse to go shooting thumb1

Sounds reasonable, I'll swap the recoil spring and try it tomorrow. As you said it's a good excuse to do some shooting! If this doesn't fix it I'll get out the bullet puller and take down all the hollow points.
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2016, 10:36:49 AM »
I must have grazed over the part about a recoil spring swap.  Yeah, I would change it back.
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Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2016, 11:06:20 AM »
It makes sense, I don't know what else it could be?! I don't feel like it's the mags as the factory ammo functions great in them. The feed ramp is smooth as it was polished over a year ago. Seems like it would have to be the recoil spring then?
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2016, 11:07:55 AM »
Swap it back a see...
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Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2016, 11:09:09 AM »
I swapped it out a little while ago, gonna try it shortly.
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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2016, 03:31:07 PM »
If the recoil spring don't change the way it acts, I would point my finger at the bullet ogive. A 230gr round is going to have a much more rounded plump ball shape than a 185gr or even a hollow point. The 230fmj rounds you tried, even being cheapie fun Tula, doesn't have an issue, feeding or extracting.

My Auto Ord. 1911 manual recommends the use of only 230gr fmj ammo, yeah, I cracked it open for the first time ??? on page 8, right between inertia firing pin and lead exposure. The feed ramp may be designed at such an angle, the less rounded bullets could possibly misfeed, the ramp may be designed around a standard 230 gr bullet fmj, a lighter bullet with a flat nose with slightly different approach angle may cause issues. I'm just guessing, why deviate from a pistol design that has seen and worked fine in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and the Middle East, each time using standard issue GI 230gr fmj ball rounds.

I'm guessing, the lighter, more pointed bullets will work, cycle, and what not, and I wonder what a 230gr HP would do, or maybe a lighter bullet more closely replicating the 230gr bullet profile. The lighter grain bullets might work fine in, say a Glock 21, because, your dealing with a whole different design, a more modern design than the 105 year old design. They had one flavor of .45acp bullet back in 1911, the 230gr fmj GI issue ball round, in 2016 there are hundreds, they haven't changed the feed design to keep up with the times.
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Offline SubCaliber

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2016, 08:02:48 PM »
Did swapping the recoil spring back fix this? 
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Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 08:27:41 PM »
Sorry for not following up on this SubCaliber but the pistol is loading fine now. I emailed a Rock Island Gunsmith and told him what was going on. He told me go to an 18lb spring, oil the pistol and "shoot the crap out of it"! I had been leaving it dry after cleaning it each time I shot it because of the oil attracting grit.

It works fine now after I started dosing the rails up with Lucas oil!  stickup1
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Offline SubCaliber

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 08:37:38 PM »
Ah yes, 1911's do love to be oiled. Glad that worked for ya.
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Offline Power Surge

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 08:38:40 PM »
Send it to me and I'll fix it :)

Common problem with .45s...I do a lot of these.
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Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 08:52:23 PM »
Well the recoil spring did the trick, and me using oil in it again! I thank you Power, if I have any more trouble with it I'll bring it over! That Rock Island/Armscor Gunsmith wanted me to send it to him but I politely declined, they have a reputation of keeping them for a long while!
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Offline Power Surge

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2016, 09:01:43 PM »
Quote from: Dannyboy53 on August 31, 2016, 08:52:23 PM
Well the recoil spring did the trick, and me using oil in it again! I thank you Power, if I have any more trouble with it I'll bring it over! That Rock Island/Armscor Gunsmith wanted me to send it to him but I politely declined, they have a reputation of keeping them for a long while!

As long as it works, that's all that matters. But I would bet anything the actual cause is still there...the new spring is probably just powering the round past the issue for now.

.45 ACP is a short, fat, round. It's very common for people to have issues with stub or 3 point bind. Plus, 90% of your production pistols nowadays are NOT optimum from the factory. They work enough to work, but not enough to be long term reliable. That's where people like me come in ;)
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: RIA .45 ACP failure to feed
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 11:57:40 PM »
The Remington R1 Blicero sold me runs like a freaking raped ape.  aikido1
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