Chinese Paratroopers

[100Acre]

I picked up a couple of Paratroopers 2 weeks ago. I paid for $275 for the Bubba's Beer and Paint shop-synthetic stock with all matching #'s and $300 for the Wood Stock non matching #'ed rifle. It appears that some of the part numbers were scrubbed on this wood stocked rifle. Should I Field strip these and post pics of their internals or is that just for older Milsurp rifles? Thanks

[100Acre]

The wooden one

[100Acre]

Another question, should I switch the stocks and put the wood on the all matching rifle? I don't like Bubba's beer and paint job but I'm also not sure how to strip paint from a synthetic stock. Thanks.

[running-man]

They are both non-matching, I don't think it much matters which stock is on which. 

I do think you could restock the bubba'd one and make a quick $100 on it should you sell it.   

[100Acre]

They are both non-matching, I don't think it much matters which stock is on which. 

I do think you could restock the bubba'd one and make a quick $100 on it should you sell it.   

How is the Bubba'd one not matching?

[running-man]

Because neither one has all the original serial numbered hardware.  Stocks count. You can't have all matching w/o a matching stock. 

[Direct Connection]

Because neither one has all the original serial numbered hardware.  Stocks count. You can't have all matching w/o a matching stock. 

Yeah, There's all matching and there's all matching except for the stock  But regardless you really got a good deal on both of those. Id leave that camo look on the one. Looks good   

[100Acre]

I was thinkin....I sometimes do that. That das vooden stock hast no #'s either. So does having no number count as matching?

[100Acre]

I'd almost dare to say that Bubba used a feather to paint the stock.

[Greasemonkey]

I don't know if all the commercial variants have or came with a serialed stock, my Type 84 does, where my SKSNR doesn't.

[running-man]

Std. paratroopers that were made from standard length carbines should all have matching serialized stocks.  Those that don't have either bkank replacements or non matching replacements.  Not as bad a thing as a replacement stock on a standard (non paratooper) military issue carbine though.

'All matching except' is a common saying among the SKS community. Unfortunately it's a bit like saying someone is 'a little bit pregnant'.   

[Greasemonkey]

Maybe it's just me... I don't get butthurt over matching numbers.. I've never seen something with matching numbers shoot better than a non-matching number something. And I cant see them numbers looking though the rear sight.. Lots of weapons don't have matching numbers...German Mausers, Finnish Mosins, even American weapons..

Besides...non matchy ones....are usually CHEAPER..

[running-man]

Wait GM, you actually fire your firearms!? 

That's just crazy talk right there.  Gun collections are just for licking!


Regardless of what you do with them, matching numbers drives price and price is typically the most important thing to a good many collectors.   

[Greasemonkey]

Wait GM, you actually fire your firearms!? 

That's just crazy talk right there.  Gun collections are just for licking!


Regardless of what you do with them, matching numbers drives price and price is typically the most important thing to a good many collectors.   

I have fired a few.. the ones I get around too, but I have a bunch I haven't fired.

Bah..your right collections are for licking...   hoards on the other hand, well sometimes you just gird up your loins and test one.

But.... in certain instance.. matching everything is wrong.. a refurb Garand will typically be mismatched.. people spend tons of $$$ to match them back up, at which time it is non-correct.. 

I have always looked at the $$$ value different than a lot of people.. if'en and when I decide to dump the pile.. if I get, what I paid, great , if I get more, even better ......unlike so many, my life doesn't revolve around milking every penny and nickel I can get from a gun, I'm not in it for the $$$$, I'm in it because I enjoy the history, fun and other things. If I were in it for money... there would be a Greasemonkey Gunshop in the southern Shenandoah Valley.

[running-man]

I agree 100%.  A very large % of everyone else out there that collects milsurps most certainly doesn't. 

Sometimes I feel like we're the last of the breed GM, the last of the breed. 

[100Acre]

I haven't shot much of what I've purchased over the past couple of months. I've pretty much been concentrating on learning the history, production data and values of the various rifles. And cleaning them! I'll get around to some range time soon and try to share some of that information here.

[Greasemonkey]

I agree 100%.  A very large % of everyone else out there that collects milsurps most certainly doesn't. 

Sometimes I feel like we're the last of the breed GM, the last of the breed. 

'All matching except' is a common saying among the SKS community. Unfortunately it's a bit like saying someone is 'a little bit pregnant'.   

I will probably get blasted for saying this but, it's gotta come out...... it seems so, so much emphasis and obsession is put on numbers or it having to be number matching, that most over look so many other wonderful mis-matched rifles. Like you said look at most posts.... usually somewhere in a post it says "mostly matching" or "almost matching"... it's like some evil, terrible, oh my God, the world is going to end thing to just man up, and say "it's mis-matched". One part is all it takes....absolutely nothing separates "mostly matching" or "almost matching" from "mis-matched", it is, what it is and there is no shame in just saying that it's mis-matched.

If one wants to really split hairs.... to me, a blank sterile part is technically.....not number matching either, it's just a no serial stamped replacement part, a sterile replacement part is just like a mis-matched replacement part, in the end, it's still a fricken replacement part, and it's not how it came off the assembly line, and technically neither of those replacement parts have the correct serial number stamped in it. There is no mystical invisible serial number on said sterile part that makes it magically matching.

Like I said, I don't get butthurt or loose sleep over numbers, I own quite a few mis-matched things, one or two are papered bringbacks, do I hang my head in shame and hold them in lower regard than matching stuff, NOPE... If it matches great, if not, whoopie, 99.99% of the time it will still function perfectly, be just as accurate and look identical to a number matching weapon, and at the range, from 2 feet away, no one will ever know it is a mis-matched rifle. In all of my collecting years, I have never heard "oh it doesn't work, well, you need the correct original serial numbered part before it will function again". While people pay premiums for inconsequential numbers, there is usually always a slightly lower cost equal condition mis-matched alternative collecting dust somewhere begging to be enjoyed and loved.. In the current state of milsurps.... neither a number matching or mis-matched rifle will loose any value....both still will appreciate, albeit on a slightly different scale.

OK... rant over, it's just my opinion so flame on and roast me for it   

Now, back to your normal scheduled program..

[Phosphorus32]

OK... rant over, it's just my opinion so flame on and roast me for it   

Invitation accepted    Okay, nah, I won't flame you GM because I agree with the gist of what you're saying. I may differ a bit on the matching issue. Like you, I'm a collector/shooter. I have firearms that'll stay in the grease as long as I own them, but most are cleaned up and used...or at least intended to be put in the rotation someday 

However, I do like matching, or more importantly, original surplus firearms. I have a lot of mismatched firearms in my collection, a bunch of "force-matched" or perhaps more appropriately refurbishment arsenal matched (cumbersome phrase), and quite a few matched examples. I do like the matched examples, and understand the added value regarding collectability, mostly because it means they are original. Refurbishment arsenal matched examples are common among Russian firearms, e.g., Mosin M91/30, M38, M44s and SKS-45s. I like them but won't pay as much for them as an original matching example. They are brought up to original specs for functionality during refurbishment, so for a person looking for a reasonably priced collectable, but more importantly shootable, example, these are great 

As GM points out, with American military firearms where one serial number is the norm, "correct" grade comes into play, and people will swap around parts on an M1 Garand to get correct drawing numbers, on an M1 Carbine to get correct parts sub-contractor markings, on a Model of 1917 Eddystone/Remington/Winchester to get all matching parts (E/R/W) on a rifle where the barrel date is in the correct range for the receiver SN, etc. They aren't any more original than they were before the collector started swapping parts, they just appear "correct". I have an M1917 Eddystone that has Canadian Royal Canadian Engineers property markings, a serialized bolt handle attributable to post-WWII usage by the Danes (because the Americans didn't serialize the bolt), and... sit down and brace yourself... an import mark  I like the history of that rifle even more than an as-issued, parts correct US Property only Eddystone (though I certainly wouldn't turn my back on one of those either). Just my personal opinion. It's fun when you can see the history in the firearm.

The German's serialized the heck out of their firearms for internal use ... especially during the 13 year tenure of the "Thousand Year Reich"  ... and to a lesser extent on Loewe/DWM/Mauser contracts for South America etc. Does a mismatched cleaning rod bother me? No. Is it cool when every last part matches? Yes. Will I turn down a deal on a bolt mismatched K98k? Heck no! The standardization of firearms and parts manufacture means they will generally function just as good as the original, and you can get them for a lot less because they are mismatched. Part of the appeal of matching numbers is originality, and partly it relates to scarcity. Matching original specimens are always going to be more rare. Sometimes you really have to pay up for matching, so it becomes a value judgment. A mismatch example: my G33/40 with a mismatched bolt (but correct Czech G33/40 bolt) that I got for $1K, when a matching example brings $2K +/- 0.4K, yeah, I was okay with that compromise.

Bringbacks? If they're matching, cool. If they aren't, I don't care, as long as it appears (to the best of my ability to discern provenance) that the parts were part of the firearm when it was picked up. In other words, in these special cases, matching patina, or correct era of manufacture, are more important to me than matching parts.

[Bob_The_Student]

    GM, I understand what you are saying as well. I'm so new to all this that to me and probably others trying to find matching is part of the hunt. I'm more like P32 in my thought of how I want to collect. Although even I realize not every gun I will collect will probably not be 100%. However, I also kinda of feel that if I just pick up whatever gun just because it's a gun am I collecting or hoarding (wait don't answer that). And I'm not saying that if it don't match it can't be collected either (we all know better....yes even me).

    I'll be honest, the more I look around the more I'm like OK... "I'll have one of those and one of these". And I'm going to have plenty of guns that don't match because there may not be many that are "correct" anymore or it's like the example that P32 gave near correct as opposed to dropping another $1K or more so you get that extra part matching.

    I guess it comes down to the old saying "it's your money". You and I will spend it how we see fit on the guns that draw us in matching or not. The biggest thing that drives me nuts about not matching is that sometimes they're gems and (I) don't know it. I'm still to green with some of this stuff.

[Greasemonkey]

Invitation accepted    Okay, nah, I won't flame you GM because I agree with the gist of what you're saying. I may differ a bit on the matching issue. Like you, I'm a collector/shooter. I have firearms that'll stay in the grease as long as I own them, but most are cleaned up and used...or at least intended to be put in the rotation someday 

However, I do like matching, or more importantly, original surplus firearms. I have a lot of mismatched firearms in my collection, a bunch of "force-matched" or perhaps more appropriately refurbishment arsenal matched (cumbersome phrase), and quite a few matched examples. I do like the matched examples, and understand the added value regarding collectability, mostly because it means they are original. Refurbishment arsenal matched examples are common among Russian firearms, e.g., Mosin M91/30, M38, M44s and SKS-45s. I like them but won't pay as much for them as an original matching example. They are brought up to original specs for functionality during refurbishment, so for a person looking for a reasonably priced collectable, but more importantly shootable, example, these are great 

I'm not disagreeing.. money, value yadda yadda aside.....let me try this method...

 it just gets old sometimes seeing people get busted down or feeling they just can not say it's mismatched, or they tiptoe around the subject with terms like mostly matching or almost matching, I mean come on...... it is mis-matched, no matter how you fluff and buff the terminology.. All over something like a Chinese SKS doesn't match, or a Russian refurb doesn't match. There are only like what..........umpteen thousands of them, it's not like they are overly rare and as a whole and statistically, there will be a corresponding amount that don't match.
On the same token, no one really gets tweaked up because a Romanian doesn't match, because it's expected, same thing with an Albanian...because it's rarer by weight of comparison. Over the past 15 years or so I've been in forums... if something doesn't match, depending on the forum, it seems like the item posted is sometimes shunned or diss'ed because of one or two parts, then you see a bubba posted and the one that shunned the earlier original mismatched part rifle is praising an artsy fartsy sanding and refinish job later. I've seen many people proudly post a rifle they got, no, it didn't match and some uppity snob comes along, first thing...does it match? then it's, well then, it wasn't worth that much because it doesn't match or something ignorant along those lines.. it's like a swift kick to the man purse.

It just seems numbers have consumed the collective bunch...numbers seem to push the history, coolness or whatever in to the back seat and mis-matched rifles don't get much love or respect, even though they may have served the same and been used right next to what is a matching one. I have seen many gorgeous mis-matched rifles and some hideous matching ones.