General Milsurp Weapons > Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns

New IJ-70 makarov find

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Witchywoman:
Been a while since posting here,

I missed the Bulgarian one I had sold years ago. In this current market prices on Makarovs are nuts. I spotted an IJ-70 on Gunbroker for a lot less than normal price and  for well under $400. I see them go for $600-$800 weekly. No way I was going to pay that. Snagged it right away.

It appears like someone bought it new in box and never even shot it. I am not sure if the number marks it as made in 1948 but its on both the slide and frame. I knew these IJ's were made for the civilian market (But the quality is just as good as milsurp and the adj sights a plus) but I thought they were a lot newer (like 70's-80's) but I have seen many of them sold as C&R since Russians are listed on the approved list. Frankly I think all countries should be C&R approved, that AFT list is so outdated. What do you all think?

Greasemonkey:
I have an IJ-70... in . 380, I don't think the  Baikal IJ is deemed C&R, it's technically commercial, and I was once told, the adjustable rear sight differs from the military fixed one, which is obvious. Mine being not 9x18mm probably disqualifies it even more.  I wasn't about to buck the system, I just did a 4473 and went on my merry way.

There is also an ATF letter inquiring about them....  It's on the internet, so it's gotta be true rofl
https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/imez-and-baikal-makarovs-not-c-r.220943/

Witchywoman:
Was sold by a 01 FFL. Also its not an Imez and the markings on mine look to be military from what I have researched because it has all the markings military russian maks have and is void of several of the marks that Imez and others I have seen have.

I also read that some of these early on were sold as civilian imports but were in fact old military surplus maks sold from armories, the adjustable sight notch cut and put on, and before they started producing the double stack and 380 versions. Of course there is all kinds of misleading information on the net and opinions vary but judging by the date on mine and other markings that I have not seen on most of the clearly later civilian made ones I think its ok. I also have a CCL. The date on it is clear and regardless is well over 50 years old now. Not gonna dwell on it. lol

Guns do not have to be ex-Military though. Many of the guns sold by century,tiger and auction sites are not military at all. Old winchesters, S&W, etc,etc etc. As long as they are 50+ years old or on the approved list and several guns AFT just green stamped as such. For years though I have seen things like Zastava M70s, M88's, FEG pa63's, and a ton of other guns on gunbroker and elsewhere sell as C&R and clearly they are not. There are a lot of dealers/sellers out there that do not seem to check what they are selling on a pretty large scale and I never buy anything like that when I know its not.

Witchywoman:
Did some further research and it looks like Izhevsk started making these in 1990 so the 1948 date is most likely just to show when the design was conceived. There seems to be little information on the differences between Imez and Izhevsk/Balkail versions unless you really dig which I just did. I went ahead and called the FFL since it had not shipped yet and told him to route it to a local dealer and do it right to avoid any issues. Regardless I think it was a good deal for the price.
 
Again I really think the feds should update their lists and also note specific differences because I would bet many have sold as C&R because they are Russian and a good deal of people do not know or think of the difference when they see the list says "Russian" made Makarov's.

Greasemonkey:

--- Quote from: Witchywoman on March 04, 2025, 06:51:19 PM ---Mines dated 1948 and was sold by a 01 FFL so I think I am fine. also its not an Imez and the markings on mine look to be military from what I have researched because it has all the markings military russian maks have and is void of several of the marks that Imez and others I have seen have.

I also read that some of these early on were sold as civilian imports but were in fact old military surplus maks sold from armories, the adjustable sight notch cut and put on, and before they started producing the double stack and 380 versions. Of course there is all kinds of misleading information on the net and opinions vary but judging by the date on mine and other markings that I have not seen on most of the clearly later civilian made ones I think its ok. I also have a CCL. The date on it is clear and regardless is well over 50 years old now. Not gonna dwell on it. lol

Guns do not have to be ex-Military. Many of the guns sold by century,tiger and auction sites are not military at all. Old winchesters, S&W, etc,etc etc. As long as they are 50+ years old or on the approved list and several guns ATF just green stamped as such. For years though I have seen things like Zastava M70s, M88's, FEG pa63's, and a ton of other guns on gunbroker and elsewhere sell as C&R and clearly they are not. There are a lot of dealers/sellers out there that do not seem to check what they are selling on a pretty large scale and I never buy anything like that when I know its not.

--- End quote ---

I'm not one to bust a bubble, but Russia didn't formerly military accept the Makarov until '51ish... mass production would have started after. I say this because mine is the 40th year anniversary model celebrating the Makarov, 1953 to 1993.




Mine doesn't have Imez  markings either, it's marked Baikal which is a commercial brand off shoot developed by Izhevsk i.e. shotguns, rimfires, AK's etc.

While I fully agree, especially after 20+ yrs of having a C&R..... in the end, it's both the seller and buyers responsibility to decide, down the road.. depending on who gets the ATF audit could be painful if the ATF auditor decides to declare it not a C&R. Because of the clear as mud approach, Ive always erred on the side of caution, makes life a little easier, especially with some weapons there's no way to accurately date, while I may agree it's 50+, there's that niggling feeling it's not worth the risk.  This current day vs 20 yrs ago is alot easier... '74-'75 is 50yrs old, I have a Glock that will be C&R in 15yrs. 

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