Author Topic: 1950 transitions  (Read 8574 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
1950 transitions
« on: May 29, 2018, 09:09:25 PM »
Added -  50 with long tab receiver cover latch - #5
I have been interested in the way the 50s changed. Thanks to info from various experts, I have tried to follow this change.
1.  50  with all 49 features including spike bayonet. This was in question until documentation was presented and another 50 with spike was found.
          https://ibb.co/album/kP3zJv
2.  50 with 49 features including a spike bayonet, but with a 45 degree gas port instead of 90 degree gas port.
          https://ibb.co/album/N9G70w
          https://ibb.co/album/CBJYxs
3.  50  with blade bayonet. Stock and stock ferrule needed to be replaced from the 49, but still has remaining 49 features.
          https://ibb.co/album/hva8WF
          https://ibb.co/album/cQ985a
4.  50  with blade bayonet. 90 degree gas port, forged eyelet, star and date stamped. Pictures supplied by Yeklop.
          https://ibb.co/album/9kBT85
          Another example of an early 50 from Matt
          https://ibb.co/album/Vx1ggh
5.  50  gas port replaced with 45. Still retains engraved date and tula star, and spring FP.
          https://ibb.co/album/jWEABF
6.  50  with stamped date and tula star. Still retains forged eyelet take down lever. Photos added by Cz315
          https://ibb.co/album/2SQQzn
7.  50  with stamped date and tula star. Change to stamped eyelet receiver cover takedown latch. Retains spring FP.
          https://ibb.co/album/cwJsQa
8.  50  with stamped date and tula star. Change from stamped eyelet receiver cover takedown latch to long tab latch.
          https://ibb.co/album/iv23gF
9.  50  with stamped date and tula star. Change from receiver cover long tab latch to short.
          https://ibb.co/album/j3SxrF
10. 50  with stamped date and tula star. Change to stamped solid receiver cover takedown latch(late 50 to 58).Retains spring FP.
          https://ibb.co/album/gw3bka
11. 50 with stamped date and tula star. Change to free floating firing pin.
          https://ibb.co/album/d2yxQa
Now this is only what I have noticed and documented. There may be other items missed. These carbines are refurbished so anything goes. Additional pictures upon request.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 11:34:39 PM by jstin2 »

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6855
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2018, 10:29:38 AM »
There's one more that you don't have listed jstin: the transitional long tab takedown lever between #4 and #5:


Noticeably different than the standard (short) tab used from late '50 through the end of production:


Found prefixes for this style (so far, this is obviously not all inclusive) are:
ДА
ДО
ЛМ
ЛЮ
СА
СК
СМ
СН
СО
СЯ
ША
ШГ
ШН
      

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2018, 01:38:20 PM »
Thanks for the info. Now one more to look for. You had mentioned long tab solid in another post but I was unsure what it looked like. Do you have any side views of lever?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 05:01:35 PM by jstin2 »

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 03:14:38 PM »
I purchased a 50 from a private sale. When I was checking it over, I noticed that it also had a spring  F/P. Then when apart, I noticed that the receiver cover latch pin hole was larger and the pin was also large. I then checked my 50 with free floating F/P and it also was the same.  Checked #5 later spring loaded F/P and it had larger latch pin hole. Added pictures of  free floating F/P receiver cover and latch pin to #6.

Here are some pictures of the SKS I received today. This would indicate another transition between #4 and #5. Also any idea what the extra stamps on receiver by S/N are?

https://ibb.co/album/j3SxrF

I checked carbine on #4 and it had early latch pin hole, #5 had the larger pin hole (both are spring loaded). The only other change between covers were the arrow design in tula star and eyelet to solid latch pin.

Possibly change to receiver cover hole was made when they went to a solid latch pin?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 07:32:32 PM by jstin2 »

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 07:30:47 PM »
Added receiver cover pictures to #4 and #5. Also picture of trigger opening in receiver. 1950 may have been when they changed the shape of opening. Time to check your 50s.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 08:04:42 PM by jstin2 »

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6855
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 09:47:20 PM »
Here are some pictures of the SKS I received today. This would indicate another transition between #4 and #5. Also any idea what the extra stamps on receiver by S/N are?

You have a УЧ Ы marked Russian training gun

Nice gun!  thumb1

Undoubtedly the pin and receiver cover hole are intertwined, one doesn't get changed w/o affecting the other.  Receiver cover innards are rarely photographed, I've got nothing in my records to show when this transition might have happened.  I'm surprised it's a separate change from the stamped "1950" date.  You'd think that when they changed one they might have changed both.   dntknw1
      

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6855
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 10:18:22 PM »
Do you have any side views of lever?

Sorry, hadn't seen this request.  Here are a few side shots:









      

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 11:18:11 PM »
running-man, thanks for the information. Are these training guns scarce? I was impressed with condition of carbine when it arrived, seller had a couple of pictures in ad and I was not able to get a close look.

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6855
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2018, 11:29:32 AM »
Training guns marked with the УЧ Ы aren't commonly seen, but one could argue that it's just a simple stamp on an otherwise typical SKS45 (or AK/PM/optic, or whatever).  As far as I know, the УЧ Ы stamp offers very little in the way of additional market price.

Your specimen is quite nice, all training guns are definitely not all like that; they run the gambit from non-functional models to pristine guns pulled fresh off the line.  Your stock has clearly been refinished but it's likely original and currently looks as-issued.  I don't see many '50s in that nice of condition to be honest, most have replacement parts, BBQ paint, refurb stamps, etc.  thumb1 
      

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 06:47:06 PM »
Added pictures of 50 with Long Tab receiver cover latch pin - #5. This should be the extent of transitions during 1950. Also it should be noted that receiver cover and latch pin are early style(small pin opening). Also opening for trigger is early style.  i noticed that the number 1 on trigger and magazine are different from rest of S/Ns.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 08:37:16 PM by jstin2 »

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 11:29:59 AM »
running-man, You had mentioned that there were 4 styles of receiver cover latch pins for 1950, there are actually 5. 49/50 had forged eyelet, then stamped eyelet, large latch, small latch then the final one that they stayed with till end of production. You can see differences in pictures.

https://ibb.co/album/d36tFa
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:17:51 PM by jstin2 »

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6855
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 11:51:35 PM »
I was unaware the retaining pin changed diameter in this transition.  That feature is almost never photographed and posted. I bet most collectors gloss over that detail, I know I did.  It would be interesting to catalogue in what S/N's this transition takes place. We could then "chronologicalize" all '50's based on their respective transition feature. Would need a much bigger dataset though, three or four specimens per prefix set with matching features would be ideal. Maybe I'll incorporate a question like this into the Russian survey.   think1
      

Online Cz315

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • The only way to avoid gun N is to avoid gun N-1
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2021, 06:03:05 AM »
This is a very useful thread. Would it make sense to add it to the stickies or add the info to the SKS guide for 1950?

Online Cz315

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • The only way to avoid gun N is to avoid gun N-1
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2021, 11:11:09 AM »
Here the promised pictures of the '50 that looks to be the 3.5 variant using Jstin2's nomenclature.





















Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2021, 09:50:28 AM »
Cz315 - If you give me the ibb.co/album/_ _ _ _ _ _ code, I will add it to the list. Thanks for the addition.

Online Boris Badinov

  • BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1285
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2021, 10:46:51 AM »
Here the promised pictures of the '50 that looks to be the 3.5 variant using Jstin2's nomenclature.



Very nice.  thumb1

Online Cz315

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • The only way to avoid gun N is to avoid gun N-1
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2021, 02:20:40 PM »
Cz315 - If you give me the ibb.co/album/_ _ _ _ _ _ code, I will add it to the list. Thanks for the addition.

Here it is. https://ibb.co/album/2SQQzn
Thanks!

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2021, 03:44:50 PM »
Cz315 - Thanks for the addition. Could you add pictures of entire rifle, bayonet channel and stock ferrule. The stock from the pictures that you took looks like it could be from a spike bayonet. The taper on the stock makes it look that way. Maybe just the angle? I know that the stock has been replaced and reserialized from pictures in your other post. The stock for a spiker has a smaller end, so it should be very loose in a blade bayonet stock ferrule unless modification or stock ferrule change.
https://ibb.co/gJYOew

Offline jstin2

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 379
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2021, 05:59:17 PM »
Cz315 - I reread your other post and you stated that it was a replacement stock and you could still see the sanded out date. Stated that you could see a 1950 date on it. If it is a stock for a spiker, then it adds additional proof of spike bayonets on early 1950 SKS. Also if the stock is for a spike bayonet, can you make out the old serial number or is it sanded out? Thanks

Online Cz315

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • The only way to avoid gun N is to avoid gun N-1
Re: 1950 transitions
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2021, 07:53:08 PM »
Will do. It did not look like a spiker (although admittedly I wasn’t looking for it). It looked like the “usual” blade stock (the one on the right in your photo). The ferrule looked like the late variety as well. I couldn’t make out the old serial. I’ll try to take some better pics tomorrow.