Author Topic: Made By NORINCO?  (Read 11839 times)

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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Made By NORINCO?
« on: January 06, 2016, 09:51:10 AM »
China North Industries Corporation

http://sks-files.com/Pictures/NorincoPDF/NORINCO.pdf

Let me make an attempt at describing whats going on here. In 1980 many research, small arms production, machining facilities etc were rolled into one large entity they named Norinco. This would include most (if not all) of the countries capacity to produce the sks at the time. Norinco is the same today as it was then, but in 1999 was rolled into an even larger group corporation called CNGC which means China North Industries Group Corporation also known as Norinco Group. For a good description as to what CNGC does, I will quote the omega research foundation publication from Oct 2014. http://www.omegaresearchfoundation.org/assets/downloads/publications/20150128_CNGC.pdf

Quote
1. Purpose of CNGC

CHINA NORTH INDUSTRIES GROUP CORPORATION also known as the Norinco Group is a state
owned enterprise and forms the main body within China for research and development of weapons
and equipment for the Chinese armed forces as well as the production thereof. To accomplish this
CNGC combines military with civil R&D and production. The structure of CNGC is highly complex
and includes at least 46 large member units, and each of these has many different subordinate units.
Included are research institutes, production facilities, trading companies, mining companies... CNGC
is also involved in other sectors including the extraction industries, manufacturing and petroleum.

Norinco is listed as a 'member unit' under the CNGC or Chinese North Industries Group Corporation. To get a better idea of what exactly Norinco does under the CNGC and whether or not they actually produce weapons, import/export, or both, we can look at a few more publications such as the Omega Research Foundation once again. When you scroll down the pdf you will see each 'member unit' within the CNGC listed and then broken down.  Norinco is 2nd on the list and has several entities listed under the breakdown. The first 'type of work' listed for Norinco represents its main role within CNGC and I will quote it here.

Quote
2. MEMBER UNIT: China North Industries Corporation (Norinco) (中国北方工业公司)

Owners: CNGC

Type of work: Military, Security, Police, equipment, (MSP), Resource, extraction,, Construction, Chemical, engineering, Heavy-duty Equipment, Logistics, Import & Export, Opto-electronic Information Technology.

Details: •    industrial manufacturer of vehicles, machinery, optical-electronic products, oil field equipment, chemicals, light industrial products, explosives and blast materials, civil & military firearms and ammunitions etc. petroleum & mineral resources exploitation, international engineering contracting, vehicles and logistics operation, etc.

As you can see, Norinco does in fact both manufacture small arms and have the ability to export them.   thumb1  I would encourage anyone to look over the Omega publication as it has more information then I have quoted.

From everything I have read in this research over the years, the Norinco WIKI is very much correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco

Quote
"The China North Industries Corporation (simplified Chinese: 北方工业; traditional Chinese: 北方工業; pinyin: Běifāng Gōngyč; literally: "North Industries"), official English name Norinco, is a Chinese company that manufactures vehicles (trucks, cars and motorcycles), machinery, optical-electronic products, oil field equipment, chemicals, light industrial products, explosives and blast materials, civil and military firearms and ammunition, etc. Norinco is also involved in domestic civil construction projects.

Norinco is also known outside of China for its high-tech defense products. Norinco produces precision strike systems, amphibious assault weapons and equipment, long-range suppression weapon systems, anti-aircraft & anti-missile systems, information & night vision products, high-effect destruction systems, fuel air bombs, anti-terrorism and anti-riot equipment and small arms."


Established in 1980 with the approval of the State Council of China, China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) is an enterprise group engaged in both products and capital operation, integrated with R&D, manufacturing, marketing, and services. NORINCO mainly deals with defense products, petroleum & mineral resources development, international engineering contracting, optronic products, civilian explosives & chemical products, sports arms & equipment, vehicles and logistics operation, etc. NORINCO has been ranked among the forefront of China’s 500 largest state-owned enterprises in terms of total assets and revenue.


Firearms produced. 

QSZ-92, pistol
Type 54, clone of TT-33 Pistol
Model M-201C a civilian version of the Type 54 also chambered in 9x19mm with the addition of a manual safety like FEG Tokagypt 58
Model 213, a civilian version of the Type 54 also chambered in 9x19mm with the addition of a manual safety like FEG Tokagypt 58
NP-17, Model M-201C in Two-Tone
NZ-75, clone of CZ 75 pistol
NZ-85B, clone of CZ 85 pistol
NP-40, clone of CZ 85 pistol in .40S&W
NP-22 (rename by importer NP226 or NC226) a Sig-Sauer P226 pistol first version clone
NP-34 (rename by importer NP228 or NC228), clone of Sig-Sauer P228 pistol
NP-56 45ACP, Sig-Sauer P220 Rail pistol Clone in .45ACP
NP-58, Sig-Sauer P226 Rail pistol Clone in .40 S&W
M-1911A1, clone of Colt M1911A1 pistol (blue version)
M-1911A1-P, Government Model version with Mil-spec (USGI) M-1911A1 clone; with the Phosphat finishing
M-1911A1-TT, Two-Tone version of M-1911A1
1911A1-Sport-B, Sport verion of M-1911A1, with Three dot sighting system, Extended slide release, Front slide serrations, Ambidextrous safety, Raised anti glare rib on slide, Large beavertail grip safety, Lite weight competition hammer, Lightened target trigger, Full length guide rod, The finish is non-reflective satin blue and Extended mag release.
1911A1-Sport-TT, Two-Tone version of 1911A1-Sport-B
M-1911A1C, Combat Commander style pistol
NP-30, Tactical verion version of Colt M1911A1 pistol clone with double column magazines, beavertail grip safety, extended slide release, flat mainspring housing, and extended ambdextrous safety.
NP-29, Colt M1911A1 clone in 9mmx19mm.
NP-28, Colt M1911A1 Clone in 9mm para High Cap
NP44, Colt M1911A1 Clone High Cap magazine
M1911A1 C, Colt M1911A1 Clone in .38 special
CQ, clone of M-16A1 variant of M-16 rifle
M14S or M305, clone of M1A, a civilian version of the M14 rifle
M93, Colt Woodsman Clone in .22LR
NP-18, clone of FEG P9R
NR-08, sub machine gun(SMG), clone of Heckler & Koch MP5.
Type 56 Carbine, clone of Russian SKS semi-automatic rifle
Type 56 assault rifle, clone of AK-47
MAK-90, a civilian, semi-automatic version of the AK-47[6]
NHM-90, 1994–2004 gun ban model, w/1.5mm stamped receiver, thumbhole stock, no bayonet lug, non-flashhider
Type 86S bullpup assault rifle
Type 87 (also known as QLZ87) 35 mm automatic grenade launcher (AGL)
QBU-88 (Type 88), sniper rifle
QBZ-95 (Type 95), an assault rifle

 
Other links of interest.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/norinco.htm

http://www.cccme.org.cn/shop/cccme0012/introduction.aspx

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/firm64.html


How does this apply to my sks?

Jianshe arsenal /26\ we know completely stopped producing the sks in 1979 and was not rolled into Norinco in 1980. It was converted to produce motorcycles and later rolled into China South Indistries Corperation in 1999.  So any Norinco marking on a /26\ will obviously represent the enterprise that later exported it. http://www.jianshetrade.com/wm/en/AboutUs.aspx?id=4

All other post Jianshe arsenals and reworks have a high probability of being produced at a factory that was rolled into Norinco in 1980. So any non /26\ rifle marked Norinco can represent the enterprise that controlled the factory at the time of export and exported it.

All commercial guns made or altered from previous arsenal guns were done so after 1980 and are true blue Norinco products. 



Other info.
 
I have read that China North AND South both own 50% of the Norinco export/import extension. If this is correct and that these two defense manufacturing power-houses own and operate the export entity under them, DO NOT be surprised to find Norinco stamped on earlier JIANSHE produced rifles.

In 1981 the Type 81 completely eliminated the need for (7) 56.5 semi automatic rifles per squad and it was completely withdrawn from all PLA units by 1984/85. The T56 carbine rifles in which they have a large surplus of now, remained only in use by the militia, police, and honor-guard.

In 1984 the first COMMERCIAL variant was exported to the US called the Clayco Sports M8. These rifles are clearly marked (MADE IN CHINA AT NORINCO SHAN YI JI FACTORY).  The (shan yi ji) is the factory under the Norinco umbrella that produced the rifle or atleast converted it.

China North (Norinco) and china South were exporting rifles through a company THEY CONTROL which just happens to be called Norinco. China North and South were exporting existing Jianshe rifles including refurbing them for export, AND producing commercial variants utilizing new/surplus components.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 06:21:28 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2016, 11:40:03 AM »
Great write up LC. Good resource to point to when the tired old narrative that "Norinco never made anything" gets hacked up like an alley cat with a bad hairball.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2016, 03:12:53 PM »
Imagine that :o Thats what some are stamped. Made in China by Norinco. So with China North Industries Corporation being in China, it's entirely plausible thumb1 Because they are not going to stamp Made in Romania by Cugir on them, or Made in Russia by Tula on them.






Now, lets look at this, very popular and on my 12 Gauge as well as my 410 :) ..Made in Russia by Izhmash.. notice the same wording, "Made in" and "by"  Whats this mean, well it's "Made in" Russia (of course, it's a Saiga 12) it was produced "by" Izhmash which is in Russia.



Here is another, Made by CN Romarm SA/Cugir in Romania, sure it's backwards, but it simply means Made in Romania by CN Romarm SA/Cugir



So, how does "Made in China By Norinco" mean something tee totally different than "Made in Russia By Izhmash"..  explain it to me bat1  Does "made in" and "by" in China mean something totally different than in Russia, or Romania, even the U.S.   I mean my car, has a sticker that says Made in U.S.A. By Honda... So is it not an American vehicle or is it not a Honda cause it wasn't made in Japan.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 03:17:30 PM by Greasemonkey »
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2016, 06:46:51 PM »
Major overhaul of the OP just done..
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline MATAZOMBIE

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 01:46:49 PM »
Great write up LC. Good resource to point to when the tired old narrative that "Norinco never made anything" gets hacked up like an alley cat with a bad hairball.

Thank you Sir, very well done and informative. God bless!!
I would rather live my life believing in God, and upon my death discover that He doesn't exist, than to not believe and upon my death discover that He does!!!

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016, 02:38:36 PM »
Quote
While many of the suspected smugglers have direct ties to two state-owned Chinese weapons manufacturing companies, federal officials would not say whether the guns had been illegally imported with the knowledge of the Chinese Communist government. Seven other suspects remain at large in China.

Of the two weapons firms, the China Northern Industrial Corp., also known as Norinco, and Polytech, the latter supplies the Chinese military.

Quote
The weapons were made at the Norinco plant in Dalian, China, near North Korea

 bat1

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-05-24/news/9605240246_1_nuclear-weapons-us-china-relationship-chinese-manufactured
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 02:53:32 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2016, 02:49:48 PM »
Quote
The judge said in his ruling that the weapons seized in the trucks were all made by China's Norinco ordnance company.

 bat1

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2014/02/smuggling-china-made-weapons-focus-20142463722679830.html
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 02:57:46 PM »
Quote
In addition to Ku, federal agents arrested Richard Chen, 65, who like Ku is a restaurateur and was identified as a U.S.-based representative of Beijing's North Industries Corp., known as Norinco, a major munitions manufacturer.

 bat1

http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Smuggler-of-Chinese-arms-pleads-guilty-3116012.php
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016, 06:36:01 PM »
Quote
Norinco, of of China's largest state-owned weapons manufacturers


 bat1

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/chinese-agents-smuggle-arms-to-spread-militancy-in-north-east/1/139538.html
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 01:42:35 PM »
I'll add a few more Norinco made.... :)
This list is just mostly rimfires that can be found.. Just a pile of stuff I gathered while researching my bunch of Norinco rimfire rifles.

NOTE: other model numbers do exist based on importer. Most are still in current production today.

JW-103/JW-105- Center fire Mauser style bolt actions - 7.62x39/.223 Rem... Made at 396 State Factory, pretty close to the Cz527, can also be found with JING AN and EM331 model number
JW-8 bolt action.. .22 lr, typically shown as a Chinese training rifle, BRNO 1 copy, There is also a single shot variant, an older one from the late '50s that can be found, typically also usually stamped as a JW-8
JW-9 bolt action.. a target version of the JW-8, stock is more suited for target shooting due to sling rails, hooded front sight
JW-14, semi automatic .22 hunting rifle - copy of the ARMSCOR / Squires Bingham SB20, Can use a Marlin 70 or Marlin 25n magazines with a little work.
JW-15, bolt action .22 hunting rifles, close copy of the BRNO model 2. Can use Cz452-455 magazines with a little work. There is also a JW-15A.
JW-20, Semi automatic .22 takedown hunting rifle, close copy of the Browning takedown or SA-22
JW-21, Lever action .22 hunting rifle.. copy of the Winchester 9422 Legacy
JW-23, bolt action, same features as the JW-15...but in .22WMR.
JW-25, or TU-KKW, bolt action .22 training/hunting rifle, variant of the JW-15, stock patterned after the Geman Mauser KKW.. same magazine as the JW-15
JW-25a, or TU-33/40, bolt action .22 training/hunting rifle, variant of the JW-15, Stock patterned after G33/40, .. same magazine as the JW-15
JW-27, bolt action .22 hunting rifle. Variant of the JW-15 with a 2-piece stock, Looks almost like a MAS 36.. same magazine as the JW-15
TT Olympia, .22 target pistol, Copy of a Walther M1936 Olympia II, the Walther was a 5x gold medal winning pistol in the '36 Berlin Olympics, also been seen in .22WMR
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 06:43:42 PM by Greasemonkey »
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 03:04:58 PM »
Nice list GM!  thumb1

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 04:10:30 PM »
 thumb1
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Matchka

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2019, 04:42:12 AM »
Excellent account, GM. Cut and pasted into my SKS Lore binder. Thanks!

Offline Randy

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2020, 08:04:45 PM »
I know I'm not the only one that noticed that the acronym of NORth INdusteries COmpany is NORINCO. 

And with my usual grace I might postulate that ALL companies of this magnitude in China are owned by China. Therefore, subdivisions of those company's are also owned by China. That is after all, how we know communism and socialism to work. By saying the 'owners' that is likely to be meant as the government. That in turn reduces the complexity of the organization to being simply parts of the government. That does not mean it makes it any easier to ferret out a paper trail however. It would possibly make it harder since what entity one does and then moves up the chain of command isn't necessarily important to entity number two and so forth. Coupled with the well known lack of ambition due to being a socialist state there is no impetus to care. It's easier to drop those records in the trash than it is to store them in a searchable fashion. Just a thought.

Offline Bubbazinetti

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2020, 03:49:47 PM »
Don't see the Norinco Type 59 Makarov 9x18 pistol mentioned in the list.They were certainly imported before the ban.







When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2020, 03:54:57 PM »
Norinco type 59


When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2020, 03:58:14 PM »
Norinco type 59

When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2020, 04:35:28 PM »
good stuff, thanks everyone.  thumb1
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Re: Made By NORINCO?
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2021, 08:08:39 PM »
what about the 78/79 models with plastic over the gas tube i got one and just realized this