Author Topic: Drei Pistole Modell 38  (Read 6787 times)

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Offline Phosphorus32

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Drei Pistole Modell 38
« on: January 21, 2019, 05:40:25 PM »
I've wanted a P.38 for a while. Was watching a bunch at a pre-Christmas auction, and, well, uh, if they're going that cheap, I might as well get a representative of all three manufacturers. They arrived last week, so here are a few pictures. Crappy indoor lighting but the bluing is quite nice on the Walther, a bit worn on the Spreewerk, and the phosphate treatment is in good shape on the Mauser. Edge wear, as expected.

Walther designed the Pistole Modell 1938 (P.38) in the late 30's and began production in 1939 but in 1942, two additional manufacturers were added. The Walther (ac code) and Mauser (byf code) were made in August 1943 according to the serial number and letter block tables. The Spreewerk (cyq code) was made in January 1944. Both the ac and cyq are blued while the byf has the grey phosphate (Parkerizing) treatment. Walther, Mauser and Spreewerk produced a total of 585K, 323K and 283K, respectively, for a total of about 1.2M.

None of these are import marked, and none are perfect, but I'm pleased to have filled the hole(s) in the collection  :) My depth of knowledge on these is shallow so all input is welcome. Thanks.



















Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2019, 06:49:01 PM »
 :o drool2 3....that's 1 too many, send the ugly one to me. I only got one P.38.... cry1

My knowledge on a P.38 is about as deep as the non-existent import stamp, I know how to rip it apart, how to put it back together and it's 9mm....thats a start...but hey least I got....one pistol, I also have a super secret all number matching P38 can opener. chuckles1

Nice haul of P38s P32  thumb1 drool2
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline running-man

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2019, 10:34:54 PM »
You've got it baaaaad P32!  Might want to keep that GM guy at arms length for a while, he's clearly a bad influence...  chuckles1

Hopefully Donp comes by and tells you everything there is to know about these three!  thumb1
      

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2019, 11:47:55 PM »
You've got it baaaaad P32!  Might want to keep that GM guy at arms length for a while, he's clearly a bad influence...  chuckles1

What, what I do now?  Hey sometimes an addict doesn't need enabling... He fell off the wagon alone this time..... I had nothing in this one... nea1 he is a closet addict cause he didn't even tell me about this high he got, not even a hint. rofl2

Besides......he is a bad influence too, trust me..  :)
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 03:44:59 AM »
:o drool2 3....that's 1 too many, send the ugly one to me. I only got one P.38.... cry1

My knowledge on a P.38 is about as deep as the non-existent import stamp, I know how to rip it apart, how to put it back together and it's 9mm....thats a start...but hey least I got....one pistol, I also have a super secret all number matching P38 can opener. chuckles1

Nice haul of P38s P32  thumb1 drool2

Thanks!  :)

I mentioned I won a Mauser Oberndorf P.38...I just forgot to mention the other two  didnt do

I’d send you the ugly one, for sure, but I can’t seem to find an ugly one  thumb1  :))

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 03:54:32 AM »
You've got it baaaaad P32!  Might want to keep that GM guy at arms length for a while, he's clearly a bad influence...  chuckles1

Hopefully Donp comes by and tells you everything there is to know about these three!  thumb1

1. You’re right, I guess.  ??? I mean milsurps do have a tendency to follow me home like a pack of hungry puppies. You can’t just turn them away, right?
2. Yes, it’s GM’s fault
3. Yes input from DonP would be much welcomed!

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 09:16:03 PM »
Ok... That kinda blame hurt my one and only feeling. rofl2

I know your sitting there... Thinking.. this one here is kinda sorta ugly in it's own way..  :)
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 09:26:21 PM »
I know your sitting there... Thinking.. this one here is kinda sorta ugly in it's own way..  :)

Hmm, well, not yet. But hey, you’ll be the first to know if I figure it out  thumb1

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 09:38:29 PM »
They make you look fat.    fart1

Nice haul...   :)
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 03:26:11 PM »
...all input is welcome.

They make you look fat.    fart1

Hmm, well, almost all input is welcome  doh1


Nice haul...   :)

Thanks!   :)

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 04:10:53 PM »
Naw... Not fat... They are phat! You down wit dat chuckles1
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Donp236

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 08:47:23 AM »
P32 all your P.38's were made in 1943.  To narrow it down a little more, the Walther AC43 was made in July 1943, the Mauser BYF43 was made in August of 1943 the earliest known phosphate coating P.38 in regular production at Mauser in the B block of 1944, I suppose it could have sent back to Mauser for a refinish after its original blue finish was worn and got the phosphate coating then. Your Sprewerk CYQ was made in November of 1943.  Your Walther AC43 has the extended cut in the slide this feature in the Walther production were changed in late 1943 the extractor cut was shortened.  You can see the shortened extractor cut in the Mauser and the Sprewerk guns and the "hump" in all three guns. The Germans didn't throw anting away, they used the earlier slides until they were gone.  The same was true with Mauser and to a lesser extent Sprewerk.  When Walther made a change in production the changes were forwarded to Mauser and Sprewerk to make the  same change in their P.38 production also. 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 03:20:14 PM by Donp236 »

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 01:36:28 PM »
P32 all your P.38's were made in 1943.  To narrow it down a little more, the Walther AC43 was made in July 1943, the Mauser BYF43 was made in August of 1943 the earliest known in regular production at Mauser in the B block of 1944, I suppose it could have sent back to Mauser for a refinish after its original blue finish was worn and got the phosphate coating then. Your Sprewerk CYQ was made in November of 1943.  Your Walther AC43 has the extended cut in the slide this feature in the Walther production were changed in late 1943 the extractor cut was shortened.  You can see the shortened extractor cut in the Mauser and the Sprewerk guns and the "hump" in all three guns. The Germans didn't throw anting away, they used the earlier slides until they were gone.  The same was true with Mauser and to a lesser extent Sprewerk.  When Walther made a change in production the changes were forwarded to Mauser and Sprewerk to make the  same change in their P.38 production also.

Thanks very much for the corrected dating and additional information Don! Just to confirm, I believe you're saying the phosphate treatment wasn't instituted at Mauser until the 1944 B block. The finish does look quite old and worn, so I guess it was either done in Germany during refurbishment or here in the US and carried a lot by an owner on this side of the pond.

I may have asked before, but do you have a recommended book for the P.38s? I'm in a patient search for reasonably priced copies of the Jan Still series of books. Collectors items in themselves  :o

Offline Donp236

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2019, 03:07:46 PM »
There is a book on the P.38 I think Simpsons sells it, i'll check and get back.  On the Phosphate byf 43.  it wasn't phosphated over here the phosphate coating was too hard to duplicate.  I am pretty sure it was done by Mauser in 1944.  Simpsons has the book, it is the most recent and excellent source.  I have a signed by the authors Alex and Dieter.

https://www.simpsonltd.com/products/k1701
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 03:17:19 PM by Donp236 »

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2019, 03:44:34 PM »
There is a book on the P.38 I think Simpsons sells it, i'll check and get back.  On the Phosphate byf 43.  it wasn't phosphated over here the phosphate coating was too hard to duplicate.  I am pretty sure it was done by Mauser in 1944.  Simpsons has the book, it is the most recent and excellent source.  I have a signed by the authors Alex and Dieter.

https://www.simpsonltd.com/products/k1701

Thanks for the recommendation and the link! I just ordered it. It's nice to find a military surplus firearm monograph that isn't out of print (yet), and hence reasonably priced  thumb1

For others, here's a review of the book, with a nice video sequence of flipping through the sections, from Ian McCollum:

Thanks for the additional info on the phosphate treatment. Good to know the byf has an authentic finish. Not original blue, but refurbished by the Germans is good enough for me. Were any P.38s imported before the '68 GCA, in other words, does lack of import marks imply a bringback or merely an earlier import to the US?

Offline Donp236

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 04:21:07 PM »
Your P.38's were most likely GI bring backs.

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 08:52:51 PM »
Those are some nice Pistole Phos !  That phosphate coating with the Matt finish looks really good too. So these are 9mm ? How many mags did you get and how many rounds do they hold ? If you ever shoot them or any give us a range report.

I see GM has interest again  clap1 Ooooh Boy. chuckles1

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 09:47:09 PM »

I see GM has interest again  clap1 Ooooh Boy. chuckles1

Never lost it...... I made it almost a whole month before I fell off the wagon.

Can't get no support around here.... Like an AA meeting with an open bar. rofl2

Here's to 6 clean days. thumb1
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 10:55:39 PM »
I hide my problem here a little. I only post up like every 3rd purchase but everything is going to be okay GM. We can say, Honey look at how many guns Phos buys ! Geez lay off of me  chuckles1

Offline Phosphorus32

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Re: Drei Pistole Modell 38
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 10:02:55 PM »
Those are some nice Pistole Phos !  That phosphate coating with the Matt finish looks really good too. So these are 9mm ? How many mags did you get and how many rounds do they hold ? If you ever shoot them or any give us a range report.

I see GM has interest again  clap1 Ooooh Boy. chuckles1

Thanks DC! Just one magazine per pistol, which are single stack holding 8 rounds. I like bluing but the softened by wear phosphate coating looks nice too.  thumb1