Author Topic: "Long Barrel" Number 048  (Read 380 times)

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Online jmaurer

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"Long Barrel" Number 048
« on: February 13, 2018, 08:34:39 PM »
Folks, some of you may have seen the images I've posted of the referenced rifle on another site. I had fully intended to share them here before now, but I just haven't had the time. Anyway, I'll give it a shot here, and if necessary, I'll split them up so as not to overload the system. Anyway, I'll start off with the same questions/observations here as on the other site:

   1. It is a Tennessee Guns import; can anyone offer any time span for the date of import, given this marking?
   2. The cleaning rod is an early, female-threaded rod at the large end;
   3. Secondary electropenciled "31" on the bolt carrier;
   4. Secondary electropenciled "33" on the bolt;
   5. Bolt appears to be a reused item-note what appears to be an older number underneath the present 048;
   6. Electropenciled "428" on the gas tube;
   7. Tappet/piston extension is manufactured with a flat, on which the drawing number is placed (not sure if this is common on Yugoslav SKSs);
   8. Interesting drawing number location on the stock (under the rear of the receiver).
























upload photo to web












































It looks like a couple of the photos got inadvertently rotated; not sure how to prevent that. But anyway, as they say, the third time is the charm, and 048 isn't lonely anymore!


how to upload pic

Online carls sks

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 11:14:40 AM »
interesting numbering and nice looking.  thumb1 -------> sorry, but I don't know anything about these.  banghead1
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Online bob78

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 12:31:19 PM »
1.TRZ is refurbishment mark that means “1. Tehnicki Remontni Zavod” - that translates as “1st Technical Overhauling Institution“, and is located in Cacak, Serbia.

http://www.trzcacak.rs/en/overhauling/index.html

Online Loose}{Cannon

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 08:20:30 PM »
Quote
1. It is a Tennessee Guns import; can anyone offer any time span for the date of import, given this marking?

No idea....  Not sure anyone is cataloging/tracking the yugo importers. 


 
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  2. The cleaning rod is an early, female-threaded rod at the large end;

Cant say I have seen that before, my #080 LB seems to have a regular rod.  Pretty interesting


Quote
   3. Secondary electropenciled "31" on the bolt carrier;

Not sure what to make of these these random numbers on the LB carriers etc, but they could be assembly numbers uses during the assembly process and prior to serialization.  We see the numbers on later yugos that are larger numbers of course, but they match on all the parts on non issued guns, not so much on refurbs. 

   
Quote
4. Secondary electropenciled "33" on the bolt;

Same as the 31 on the carrier.  It would seem the LBs were even holding hands during refurb.  In other words...  Several crates if not all of them being gone over at once at the same location.


 
Quote
5. Bolt appears to be a reused item-note what appears to be an older number underneath the present 048;

As stated above, the low assembly number would indicate to me it was an LB bolt to start with.... Just on a dif gun.

 
Quote
6. Electropenciled "428" on the gas tube;

Same deal.  Interesting low number though... Guessing a B series m59


 
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7. Tappet/piston extension is manufactured with a flat, on which the drawing number is placed (not sure if this is common on Yugoslav SKSs);

Would have to look at my m59 C series and 59/66 when I return home tomorrow, but I do recall my LB having the flat.

Quote
   8. Interesting drawing number location on the stock (under the rear of the receiver).

Completely normal I believe. 


Additional comments:
I read your thread on GB forum and while I think the idea of these LBs being test subjects for pressures etc is interesting, I would have to agree with Justin (kissvids) on the matter of ot likely not being the case.  In addition, I would tend to think the LBs were the first produced in Yugoslavia.  It would seem rather redundant to experiment mid production with a dif front sight design.  Also, mid production guns had serials etched not EPed on the carrier, cover, and trigger and I would expect to see the same on the LBs if made mid production.  Same goes with the serial roll stamped into the bottom rear left of the receiver..... Its just odd and at no other point in production have they done anything like this. Then you have the assembly numbers.... All super low  numbers aswell.  This would tell me they were not made later along with rifles having much higher assembly numbers.   Lastly, as you have seen with your oddball LB having a standard front sight, they had no problem numbering a n LB with a later C series higher serial number if that was when it was made.  So in short..... Its all about those low serials. 

In fact, member Raspootyn never got us some decent pictures of the oddball C series LB and its stock plate etc.  Think you can fix that for us? 
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Online jmaurer

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 09:55:02 PM »
Loose Cannon, thanks for the reply, and for the ideas about these. They're the most enigmatic direction I've ever taken with a collection, and I'll be happy to share some photos of the C-series long barrel. May be a bit, but I'll try to get some up if time (and weather!) allow: the best light is natural light, for me anyway.

While I'm at it, the other site's thread mentioned possible intended use as sniper rifles, and I'll ask the same question for the folks here: has anyone seen one of these fitted for any of the known Zrak (or other) scopes?

Online Loose}{Cannon

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 10:19:29 PM »
Nope.

Besides, the "sniper" modified variant was a field expedient modification..... They didn't leave the factory like that.   thumb1
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 01:37:57 PM »
Quote
  2. The cleaning rod is an early, female-threaded rod at the large end;

My LB #061 has the funky threaded cleaning rod hole in the big end

Quote
7. Tappet/piston extension is manufactured with a flat, on which the drawing number is placed (not sure if this is common on Yugoslav SKSs);

My LB and "B" M59 series has the flat, my "C" M59 series and M59/66 does not

Quote
6. Electropenciled "428" on the gas tube;

I have no numbers on my LB gas tube or piston

Quote
   3. Secondary electropenciled "31" on the bolt carrier;4. Secondary electropenciled "33" on the bolt;

Both my LB bolt and carrier are blank....with exception of assembly numbers.

Quote
     6. Electropenciled "428" on the gas tube;


Same deal.  Interesting low number though... Guessing a B series m59

Whoa... hold up.....stop the press,  whats that again..........  Uhm... there have been no M59s documented above 101.... did I miss a memo?  bat1
Long Barrel Yugo M59s are supposedly #001-#099, the "B" series M59s started #154xx give or or take....  We pretty much know serials 15500 to 23700 are missing, and C series M59 picks up around 238XX...   

No later than 100 3 digit, 4 digit or 5 digit earlier than 154xx have ever been photo verified...

Now...........is someone possibly promoting an "A" or very early "B" series  M59....  My LB magazine has a 115 electropenciled on it....  could it be... do we need to rehash this whole 3+ year old thread...
http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=1878.0



Quote
Additional comments:
I read your thread on GB forum and while I think the idea of these LBs being test subjects for pressures etc is interesting, I would have to agree with Justin (kissvids) on the matter of ot likely not being the case.  In addition, I would tend to think the LBs were the first produced in Yugoslavia.  It would seem rather redundant to experiment mid production with a dif front sight design.  Also, mid production guns had serials etched not EPed on the carrier, cover, and trigger and I would expect to see the same on the LBs if made mid production.  Same goes with the serial roll stamped into the bottom rear left of the receiver..... Its just odd and at no other point in production have they done anything like this. Then you have the assembly numbers.... All super low  numbers aswell.  This would tell me they were not made later along with rifles having much higher assembly numbers.   Lastly, as you have seen with your oddball LB having a standard front sight, they had no problem numbering a n LB with a later C series higher serial number if that was when it was made.  So in short..... Its all about those low serials.

As far as gas pressure and volume.... the port on my LB, both M59's and M59/66 all look to be the same size.. the only rifles I have seen with an enlarged gas port are the short barrel Chinese paratroopers.. My understanding it's to get the gas system moving sooner and faster due of the lack of barrel after the gas port which reduces gas pressure/dwell time in the barrel. So a larger port = more gas volume = so they basically over gassed so it will cycle just a hair sooner and faster..more like a Ak, with it's over gassed gas system. Also some Chinese paratroopers have a slightly shortened gas system, where in the length of barrel you place the gas port could affect the gas system pressure and exact timing, possibly more than the port size or barrel length I would imagine.

The M59/66 looks to have used the same standard port size as the M59, only you can shut it off, it's only needed to cycle when firing actual ammo, not grenades. With regular ammo and an intermediate sized cartridge, I'm sure there is not an overly massive increase in barrel pressure with that extra inch and a half or 2 inches of barrel, I'm pretty sure it''s nothing that the robust gas system couldn't handle. And also, the gas port is possibly past the peak pressure point in the barrel, it's just hot expanding gasses at the gas block, also some where in the whole equation, there will be a point where barrel friction over comes the expanding gases..Remember, there are Ak pistols with a 10 inch or something barrel, and they cycle, albit very loudly, their gas system port would also be before the point of peak barrel pressure, because it seems if they got any shorter, the gas system goes stupid due to the extreme pressures..

Also just to throw it out there..... an RPK has a 23.5 inch barrel, an inch longer than a LB and over 7 inches longer than a standard AK-47.. it uses pretty much the same standard style AK gas system. The RPD has a 20.5 inch barrel.. while your standard issue Ak, AKM have a 14 to 16.5 inch long barrel.

And in my mind, maybe just a wild arse guess....if it did allow gas system pressures to raise ever so slightly due to the longer barrel.....that may be a good thing... that could give more tolerance in the gas system for leaky tubes/gas blocks, it in theory could have a little higher rate of gas leakage, and still cycle, where a regular 20.5 inch barrel with the same gas leakage rate wouldn't.  But.... I don't see it.. due to the fact in the micro milli seconds of dwell time the bullet is in that last say 2 inches of barrel, there is not enough time vs volume of gas that can get through the small gas port, much less enough to effect anything.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 02:20:20 PM by Greasemonkey »
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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 02:47:51 PM »
I guess the gastube # could either be a serial OR an assembly number...  Dunno.  Either way, thats a really low number right?   

I do not believe Yugoslavia would have randomly started their serials mid 15k.
      
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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2018, 02:55:07 PM »
I guess the gastube # could either be a serial OR an assembly number...  Dunno.  Either way, thats a really low number right?   

My mag is a 116... there might be more.... somewhere..

I do not believe Yugoslavia would have randomly started their serials mid 15k.

Why not.... China "supposedly" started at 84k  rofl2 chuckles1 rofl
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

Online jmaurer

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 06:50:26 PM »
Now, now, Greasemonkey...better to let sleeping threads, I mean, dogs, lie! :)

My thoughts on the other forum about barrel length/dwell time/unlocking chamber pressure/etc. were based solely on the assumption that the Long Barrels were developmental pieces between the M59 and the M59/66. Loose Cannon had some great observations on that point. Is there anyone with enough accumulated data on Yugoslav SKS rifles to see any trends in inspection marks, and what such marks as found on the long barrelled rifles may indicate?

And thanks for the commentary, and for the chance to learn!

Online Loose}{Cannon

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2018, 08:36:30 PM »
I dunno, my focus has usually been the Chinese conundrum.     :))
      
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Online jmaurer

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Re: "Long Barrel" Number 048
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2018, 03:14:47 PM »
Just to add some info: I kept wondering why I saw reference to this on the Gunboards thread as having been up for sale a couple or so years ago, and having sold for close to what I paid for the rifle. If it sold, why did the same seller post it again? Well, I just called them and asked. The proprietor told me that the rifle did indeed sell, but once the buyer called in to arrange payment, he found that the seller had a Russian SVD, and wished to obtain that instead. Can't say I would blame him for that one! Fortunately, I'm not into SVDs (eating every couple of days or so is a good thing!).