Author Topic: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944  (Read 1002 times)

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Online Boris Badinov

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Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« on: October 28, 2017, 01:07:12 PM »
[Mods: please relocate if more appropriate elsewhere. Given the date and historical context of the piece, I thought this might be suited to posting in the surplus sub-forum.]

Got a great steal on my first WWII era firearm. The three so-so pics posted by the seller looked nothing like the pistol I ended up with. I'm guessing that had something to do with a winning bid $125-200 less then the 4-5 DUO's I've lost out in since March. 1944 dated. 99% bluing intact. Looks to have been well cared for (mostly stored) and very sparingly fired in the nearly 75 years since it came off the line in the German occupied Bohemian town of Opočno, Czechoslovakia.

Now on the search for an era appropriate leather, button flap holster with extra mag pouch.

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« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 02:54:55 AM by Boris Badinov »

Online carls sks

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2017, 04:33:24 PM »
nice find, another one for my want list.  thumb1 --------> check eBay for that holster, might get lucky.  :o
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Online Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2017, 11:21:27 PM »
Neat little pistola...  If its military, its in the right section.   thumb1
      
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Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 06:24:08 AM »
Thanks, gentlemen.

As far as I've been able to determine, this one falls into a grey area between surplus and commercial.

Not a standard military issue pistol, but purchased privately and carried by some or many German officers. Adding also that the Germans seized control of Dusek's operation when he refused to continue manufacturing under Nazi occupation-- evinced in the German name "OPOTSCHNO" instead of the Czech spelling for the Bavarian town of "OPOČNO."

Pistols sold in commercially in Germany had a german distributors stamp. Which thus pistol does not have.

It aint much, but that's about all I know about em. Also, that they're pretty cool.

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2017, 08:35:21 AM »
That is a neat little pocket pistol I'd never heard of before.  thumb1 I don't have anything in .25ACP (6.35x16) but that looks like a good candidate.  think1 enabler

Only 110mm long with a 50mm barrel and 15.8mm wide, that's definitely a comfortably concealable backup pistol. I like the faux woven fabric grip pattern and overall high quality machining and finish.

Do you know anything about the "stylized N" mark on the slide and barrel? Proof mark?

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2017, 10:03:36 AM »
I've been on of a pistol binge this year. Mostly mouse and sub compacts.

The .25 is a fun round to shoot (though expensive).

I haven't delved to deep into inquiries about stamps yet.

So far I have learned nothing about the stylized N or is it Z?

Zbrovka = factory iirc.

(It almost looks like an octopus or a banana peel draped over it).

Maybe it's specific to Frank (or Franz) Dusek?

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2017, 10:16:51 AM »
My winning bid was $331.

I've set my high bid at $375 on four or five DUO auctions since March. All sold for $450 to  $550 (maybe a bit higher)
 And only one of those looked nearly as nice as this one turned out to be.

I fully expected to lose on this auction too. So, I had some "splaining to do" when my lady saw my FFL show up on my phone when they called to tell me it had arrived.

"It was sort of an accident," didn't quite cut it. Her parents escaped Communist Czechoslovakia in 1968. And now she loves the pistol and wants it for Christmas and a nice holster to put it in. "Ha ha" I thought.

Only way that'll happen is if I get another one.  Which is the obvious choice.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2017, 01:24:49 PM »
After just a quick google search I found this Bohemian Coat of arms. Opocno is in Bohemia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Small_coat_of_arms_of_the_Czech_Republic.svg

My best guess is that the squiggly figure over the N in the stamp is the Bohemian Lion/Leopard.

No idea yet what the N stands for.

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2017, 01:43:54 PM »
"It was sort of an accident," didn't quite cut it. Her parents escaped Communist Czechoslovakia in 1968. And now she loves the pistol and wants it for Christmas and a nice holster to put it in. "Ha ha" I thought.

Only way that'll happen is if I get another one.  Which is the obvious choice.

Uh oh, that sounds serious!!  The last time my wife took a fancy to one of my firearms, she ended up with it! nea1
      

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 02:10:56 PM »
The "N" stamp, and that is a lion on it''s rear legs in the center, it is actually a proof mark of Tschechische Republik.

Look at the Bohemian Lion/Leopard shield... same lion.. just in a proof mark.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

Offline armedhippie

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2017, 03:40:19 PM »
Hey Boris, Nice man  thumb1 Have you been able to lock down when exactly the germans took over the factory? I've been searching myself and can't quite lock it down.

Found a '41 made 1 last week with the original spelling of OPOČNO. and still has the original " Rampant Lion stamp" but near has I can tell was still made during occupation. The folded over mag is an occupation trait as well.

These are cool lil pieces of history arnt they? Was reading where they were on an approved list of pistols German officers could privately purchase and carry. Mine came with a lil black holster I'd like you to have a look at since you've been searching. ( oh.. forgot to add....Capture papers as well  :))

Glad you found 1  thumb1 A lil unknown piece of history that is very fascinating IMO...and like GM would say...."Yeah get it....It's a CZ aint it?"  ( Yeah a lil enabling going on in our neck of the woods)
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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2017, 03:55:26 PM »
 rofl  me Enable..  nea1   See... you listened.. gotcha good'en  thumb1

Germany took Czechoslovakia in '39... so factories were close behind...

There is a Spanish made variant, a Ydeal I ran across.. Which Frantisek Dusek imported into Czechoslovakia in the mid 30's...then based the DUO off of it, The DUO's daddy I guess you could say..

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/pistols/-25-pistols/spanish-ydeal-25acp-semi-auto-hammerless-pocket-pistol-.cfm?gun_id=100592148
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

Offline armedhippie

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2017, 04:37:18 PM »
 rofl Yep. We addicts gotta stick together  thumb1

Probably what I love best about old commblock surplus collecting....Last week all I knew about this lil pistol was it was .25 acp and czech made. ( even thought the capture papers and the LGS said " Italian"  :))) I tell people I've learned more world history collecting, than school ever taught me.

Yeah was reading he wanted to copy the spanish made expect make it better. Now...I want to find 1 of those as well. Gotta love how the surplus addicts mind rationalizes the next purchase 'eh?  chuckles1
Hippies are like stray cats...Feed 'em once and they never leave...then they stink up your couch.

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2017, 04:44:34 PM »
rofl Yep. We addicts gotta stick together  thumb1

Probably what I love best about old commblock surplus collecting....Last week all I knew about this lil pistol was it was .25 acp and czech made. ( even thought the capture papers and the LGS said " Italian"  :))) I tell people I've learned more world history collecting, than school ever taught me.

Yeah was reading he wanted to copy the spanish made expect make it better. Now...I want to find 1 of those as well. Gotta love how the surplus addicts mind rationalizes the next purchase 'eh?  chuckles1
Oh... so you want one now...hummm think1
Well...that one is.... right up in Loudoun County...just a nice drive north on I-81, you can play leafer and look at leaves.... and on your way back through.. I wanna see it. Might even throw you a cheeseburger while I drool on it.... thumb1  rofl

gotta love how an "enablers" mind works... rofl2
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2017, 06:10:28 PM »
Hey Boris, Nice man  thumb1 Have you been able to lock down when exactly the germans took over the factory? I've been searching myself and can't quite lock it down.

Found a '41 made 1 last week with the original spelling of OPOČNO. and still has the original " Rampant Lion stamp" but near has I can tell was still made during occupation. The folded over mag is an occupation trait as well.

These are cool lil pieces of history arnt they? Was reading where they were on an approved list of pistols German officers could privately purchase and carry. Mine came with a lil black holster I'd like you to have a look at since you've been searching. ( oh.. forgot to add....Capture papers as well  :))

Glad you found 1  thumb1 A lil unknown piece of history that is very fascinating IMO...and like GM would say...."Yeah get it....It's a CZ aint it?"  ( Yeah a lil enabling going on in our neck of the woods)

As part of Bohemia and part of the Sudeten region, Opocno could've been taken by the Germans as early as October 1938 during the annexation of the Sudetenland. Not sure though if Opocno was part of the annexation.

I don't think the transition from OPOCNO too OPOTSCHNO on the slide roll stamp is an accurate guage of when the Germans took control of Dusek's operation.

The "N-Lion" stamp likely remained throughout because of it's connection to Bohemia --  traditionally  an ethnically German populated region of Czechoslovakia. Still don't know what the "N" or sideways "Z" represents, though.

From what I've been able to discover online, the DUO is essentially an exact copy (or nearly exact copy) of the 6.35mm MARS pistol-- which was a direct copy of another pistol called the 6.35mm SLAVIA pistol.

If youGoogle images of all three pistols ( 6.35 DUO, MARS, SLAVIA), you'll see what looks like three of the exact same gun. Just with different names on the grips. Now that's some real cut-throat disregard for proprietary fairplay-- same as today in many ways.

Technically speaking, I don't think the DUO is officially a CZ gun. It's just a Dusek.-- the surname of the guy who made them. But the Post War version, known as the CZ model 'Z', is emblazoned with the CZ name and emblem on the slide and grips. From what I can tell the Dusek DUO and the CZ Model "Z" are the same gun just with different names. Just another copy, of a copy of a copy.

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2017, 06:48:57 PM »
The "N" stamp, and that is a lion on it''s rear legs in the center, it is actually a proof mark of Tschechische Republik.

Look at the Bohemian Lion/Leopard shield... same lion.. just in a proof mark.

Is this the mark??  It's a proof stamp. Czech commercial "nitro" proof, http://www.cuzzs.cz/en/




Still in use today, I have the same mark on maybe a half dozen Cz rifles... The one above is a 2010 Cz 452-2E Ultra Lux.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2017, 07:23:33 PM »
That's the stamp on mine next to what I thought was a mismatched slide s/n ( slide matches, just stamped inside on rail) From what I've been reading the number is some sort of " proof sequence" number?

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2017, 08:11:46 PM »
That's the mark, GM!

Thanks!


Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2017, 08:25:28 PM »
And now she loves the pistol and wants it for Christmas and a nice holster to put it in. "Ha ha" I thought.

Only way that'll happen is if I get another one.  Which is the obvious choice.

Uh oh, that sounds serious!!  The last time my wife took a fancy to one of my firearms, she ended up with it! nea1

It is serious. Very serious.

She's been after my mint Bulgarian Makarov for three years. I tried to quash that push by getting her a Shiny new S&W 686+ last christmas. But now she's using this new pistol as leverage in a renewed offensive to annex the Makarov. According to her demands: I can keep the DUO if she can have the Makarov. She's crafty.

Essentially I have two options. Get a new minty Bulgarian makrov. Or a spend about 150-250 more than I did for this DUO to get one in similar condition. Those are the ONLY two options, because I have no intention to relinquish either of the two I (we) already own. I'm crafty too.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Occupation "DUO" 6.35mm. 1944
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2017, 08:27:35 PM »
...we're quite a DUO, she and I.