Author Topic: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?  (Read 29253 times)

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Online Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2015, 07:22:00 AM »
Also a prime example of why I chose NOT to put a number on some of these arsenals. This 256 should have been in the same catagory... glad I only have to change the # under it.

Until we see what came out of xxx-xx-xxx marked crates, we have no clue as to what order these arsenal stamp #s are supposed to be.

      
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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 09:36:57 AM »
I have had this theory as well for a while, 
... this makes me question the current system of dating Chinese weapons."

Very neat Miner!  When two different people who don't know each other come to the same conclusion based on two completely different lines of evidence, let me just say that this, in and of itself, speaks volumes!

I'd be exceptionally grateful if you'd work on a post with some photos of Type 54's describing what you're talking about.  I know next to nothing about Chinese handguns, but it seems to me that the Chinese were way too consistent in the early days to have different dating schemes for each different type of weapon. 

I'm just curious, (you don't have to name the "top name in the field") how was your theory received?  Was it summarily dismissed without any discussion, or did they say they'd look into it and then never reply with hopes you'd quit bugging them?  We go where the evidence points us here at SKS-Files.  The evidence proves me wrong time and time again, and that's the way it should be: learning from our mistakes.  That's what we're all about over here.  thumb1


P.S.  I want to mention that I'm not the first one who came up with a 1970 date and Factory 256 for that crate.  Even though I came to my own conclusion of what the numbers mean in a roundabout way by using similar stampings on ammo crates and tins, user Claven2 from Candiangunnutz.com opined both on the date and the 256 factory back in May of 2010 and was thoroughly dismissed by some big name collectors.  While it's true he may not have had the entire answer, only had a single data point, and maybe not much proof to back it up, I believe he had an important part of the answer and it's an absolute travesty that his ideas weren't investigated further because they didn't conform to the XX millions theory...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:25:36 PM by running-man »
      

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 10:40:40 AM »
+10   ^^^^^^
      
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Offline miner1436

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2015, 02:10:01 AM »

I'd be exceptionally grateful if you'd work on a post with some photos of Type 54's describing what you're talking about.

Sure, here are some pictures (not of my guns):
Here we have a 1959 dated 6th year production 6.5 million



And here a 1964 dated 11th year production 11.007 million


And finally a 1966 dated 13th year production 13.01 million


Coincidence that the Xth year of production is placed in front of the serial number? Probably not, but just my opinion.

I'm just curious, (you don't have to name the "top name in the field") how was your theory received?  Was it summarily dismissed without any discussion, or did they say they'd look into it and then never reply with hopes you'd quit bugging them?  We go where the evidence points us here at SKS-Files.  The evidence proves me wrong time and time again, and that's the way it should be: learning from our mistakes.  That's what we're all about over here.  thumb1

I sent the theory to yooperj, he asked if he could share it with some other people and I never heard anything back. It probably wasn't dismissed entirely, just nothing probably came out of it.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 02:16:13 AM by miner1436 »

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2015, 08:20:46 AM »
Thats what you call a slam dunk right thar!         clap1

T54...   who woulda thunk it!!     Looks like we (and miner) were right RM.     fart1

Not surprized about yooper.  To be fair, he obtained most (if not all) of his info from other sources, and most of  the sources in question wont acknowledge anything they didn't come up with. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 09:06:57 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2015, 09:26:01 AM »
Found this post on another board by member yej0001.

No T54s produced in 1960/61 and it looks like when production resumed in 1962 they concidered it the "next production year of the T54" and resumed with the 7 million.  THEN in 1964 it looks like they decided against the offset and jumped back to the 11m where it should have been "11th year of the T54"



Quote
Here is documented observation on T54 coding rule observed so far from my research and personal observation:

1954 - 1 million range
1956 - 3 million range
1958 - 5 million range
1959 - 6 million range
1960 - supposedly no T54 was made
1961 - supposedly no T54 was made
1962 - 7 million range
1963 - 8 million range
1964 - 9 million range; some in 11 million?
1965 - 12 million
1966 - 13 million
1967 - 14 million

I have seen more current production pistol sold in Canada with s/n in 28 million and 32 million range. There was no year date stamped on the frame or anywhere. Presumably made in 1980s
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 09:39:47 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2015, 11:12:54 AM »
That jump from 59 to 62 made me go  :-\ when I first saw it.  Reading through that post of yej0001's it seems his ideas are plausible. Stopping and restarting production are certainly a good explanation of getting the system screwed up for a year or two until the Chinese Communist Party could rectify the situation (poor plant manager at /66\ was likely executed along with his family for that one... :o)

The '60-'61 "no guns made" has a likely explanation that ties it further to SKSs of the time period: the Sino-Soviet split.  This timeframe is where we see all the letter prefix SKSs.  I wonder if letter prefix T54s exist?  Perhaps they were more reliant on the Russians for production of these than they were for SKSs?

Another option is that the M21 series may have occupied that slot:

Remember these?


Now what about this:


AK's too:


These variants have all been known by collectors for many years, so nothing I'm showing here is earth shattering at all.  These M2X series could all have been made somewhat later than 60-61 though, but certainly before 1964 when the SKS began to evolve with the spike bayo and short lug.   Good stuff, thanks miner!  thumb1

Yooper certainly has done a ton of great work with what he had to work with.  All those early guys doing their best to tease out answers did great work!  Maybe it was just a dead end (that 59-62 transition and the jump at '64 still makes me go  :-\) and he moved on to something else?

The thing that gets me is when there's some hard data that contradicts your hypothesis, you've gotta change your hypothesis or try to explain why the data doesn't fit by presenting new data.  Otherwise your credibility takes a nose dive and you're seen as an obstructionist with an agenda such as trying to keep prices high on your collection or keeping yourself as the ultimate authority of XYZ.  Meh, not a big fan of that kind of stuff here at SKS-Files.  thumb1
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 11:22:45 AM by running-man »
      

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2015, 10:56:40 AM »
Little nuggets keep coming in.  Just found this one off a completed June auction.  If anyone had any doubt about the proceeding 70/71/72/73/74/75/76 being a year date, this should help with those doubts:




Before 2016 rolls in, I hope to rewrite this entire thread taking all the new data into consideration into a more compact single post.   thumb1
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 10:02:46 AM by running-man »
      

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2015, 12:17:19 PM »
 thumb1
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2015, 01:19:42 AM »
Found this one while going through the November GB Chinese Military listings:



I interpret this one to show:
a) The Chinese clearly had a method of using the S/N prefix for somehow tracking their guns as it is special and deliberate (duh we knew that, but it's a good confirmation)
b) Along with that, by this year of production they also had a pretty good feel for how many guns would be produced at a any certain small run factory (as evidenced by the 0 after the 23, this shop was not expected to produce more than 9999 of these in year 23)
c) It appears that the arsenal stamp, 五六式 stamp, and prefix were all marked at around the same time as they are pretty uniform with each other and clearly different from the 149X portion stamped into the S/N.  One has to wonder which came first, the arsenal/五六式/prefix or the 149X S/N? 

I think I'm perhaps leaning towards the arsenal and other information being blanket mass stamped on receivers at the major factory producing them and the 149X portion being done at the /0130\ arsenal itself after the gun was completed.  Just a WAG and we need more data but I thought it was an interesting one. thumb1
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 10:03:36 AM by running-man »
      

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2015, 01:35:48 AM »
Yeah...  That's rather interesting, and I think your assessment of how/why makes the most sense. 


Cool find.   thumb1
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Buckeye

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2016, 08:12:53 PM »
Curious about the factory stamp.




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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2016, 09:39:37 PM »
/106\ isn't a terribly common stamp.

14 prefix is 1969. All /106\s lack the three Chinese 'type 5 6' characters as far as I'm aware.  Should be a side sling swivel, short barrel lug, one piece gas tube, probably milled trigger group.

To be honest, we don't have many (any?) 14 prefix /106\ examples. If your gun is mostly original, you might post up photos like is shown in the other year prefixes in the http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=1785.0 thread so we can properly catalogue these ones.  Looks like a nice one though!  Thanks for sharing!  thumb1
      

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2016, 09:42:19 PM »
Yes...  Please post pics of all components so we can document this uncommon arsenal.   thumb1
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Relics

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2016, 08:30:45 PM »
Just acquired an unfired Chinese SKS made is factory 23 with what I believe to be a very low - probably 1956 serial # - in the 7000s.  An estate liquidation.  Feel like I hit the lottery.  chuckles1  Photos to follow if anyone interested.  My big problem:  how can I justify shooting this gun?  Have 5 others.  2 Yugos, 2 Chines, and an Albanian.

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2016, 08:40:47 PM »
I'd very much like to see it!  Start a new thread in the chinese military section and we'll se what you've got.  thumb1
      

Offline Dannyboy53

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2016, 08:58:53 PM »
Photos to follow if anyone interested.

DANGED RIGHT we are interested.  :) Go for it!

Offline Relics

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2016, 04:14:37 PM »
Probably the weekend before I can throw a few pixs up.

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2016, 01:12:53 PM »
Well, mea culpa.  Don't know what was in my morning coffee when I took delivery of this rifle, but it is not a pristine early gun.  It is absolutely assembly line new, but it is a far newer gun.  Took me 2 days to notice the pinned barrel!  It's got a 306 aresenal mark and the KFS import ID called #4 on this board.  KFS ATL GA SKS 7.6 etc in the finest as in smallest print hiding under the bayonet on the barrel fore end.  What I thought was a 26 stamp with a 7000s serial is actually a 26007*** so it's a 70s gun perhaps.  The 3 digit chines character set I have not been able to ID.  SO...I'm merely very happy to have the gun as opposed to ecstatic!  Now my dilemma is do I use it or lock it away.  Since I have 5 others to shoot I guess I'll treat this as an investment.

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Re: Q: When was my Chinese Type 56 SKS made?
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2016, 01:34:57 PM »
I have examples of year 23 prefixed /306\ guns but have never seen a 26,XXX,XXX /306\ marked gun.  I'd still love to see photos of it if you'd care to post them up, sounds like it's a nice one!  thumb1