Author Topic: We need some input from you guys please !!!  (Read 2301 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online 1mlt

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 370
We need some input from you guys please !!!
« on: July 01, 2015, 01:06:54 PM »
We've been considering 'offering' 2 lines of our adapters. One, we will call 'standard' and the other 'professional'.

The standard adapters will be made from black "Delrin". A hard plastic material. We've spoken with our CNC guy and he can make them for us. We don't know pricing yet, but it will be less than aluminum.

The professional adapters will be the current models with no changes.

IF we do this, we can't warrant the standard models for life as we do for the professional models.

If we do this, at what price point would we need to be to make you want to buy one of our adapters? I decided not to do a 'survey' as the prices are likely going to be all over the map from you guys.

If we do this, what would a reasonable warranty be for the standard models?

The G3 will be all Delrin material. The screw will be steel. No changes to the mags necessary. Cost savings will be passed on to you.
The G5 will be all Delrin material, except for the locking rod. It will still be aluminum, but not anodized.  The screw will be steel. No changes to the mags necessary. Cost savings we will pass on to you.
The G9 body, side plate, front locking tab and release button will be Delrin. The mag catch locking rod will still be SS. All screws will be steel. Cost savings will be passed on to you.

The professional G3 is 100.00.
How much will you be willing to pay for the standard model?

The professional G5 is 150.00.
How much will you be willing to pay for the standard model?

The professional G9 is 200.00.
How much will you be willing to pay for the standard model?

Please be reasonable with your cost desires. Yes, I'd love to sell them for 29.95. But that isn't possible. I don't think we will be able to "halve" the price either. So, something more the half, less that full retail is where we will be.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Please make any additional comments you want to make as well.

Marcus
There is but one language in the USA, English.
Teddy R.

Online Loose}{Cannon

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2015, 01:29:01 PM »
60,100,140

And have magwedge produce
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Online 1mlt

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 370
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2015, 01:30:44 PM »
60,100,140

And have magwedge produce

We are looking at that option.
Marcus
There is but one language in the USA, English.
Teddy R.

Offline Greatguns

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 386
  • Inventor of the Intrafuse folding adapter.
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2015, 02:36:57 PM »
I'm going to chime in on the material. I investigated material use for my folding adapter blocks and found Delrin to be too brittle. I was told by plastics fabricators that it will not hold up to the elements. Specifically cold weather. You would be much better off using Nylon or fiber re-enforced nylon. That is the primary material used in the aftermarket stocks.
Also, if you look at the AR polymer lowers and the 9mm mag-well adapters for the AR platform, they are using the Nylon too. Might even be able to work with injection molding using the same exact material that New Frontier uses. You might even be able to go directly to the guys that made the New Frontier or Omni lowers and get them to make your adapter out of the same material they use.

As for a lower cost G-9 I might be interested.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 02:49:37 PM by Greatguns »

Online 1mlt

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 370
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2015, 04:54:17 PM »
GG, is the nylon filled stuff cheaper also? Is it easier to cut?

Marcus
There is but one language in the USA, English.
Teddy R.

Online Loose}{Cannon

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2015, 05:36:12 PM »
I would think they would be molded and possibly cleaned up afterward.  Talk about a reduction in lead time
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greatguns

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 386
  • Inventor of the Intrafuse folding adapter.
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 06:58:25 PM »
GG, is the nylon filled stuff cheaper also? Is it easier to cut?

Marcus

Yes on both counts. The fabricators also told me the cost on Delrin to Aluminum was about the same, but that prices on both vary. Nylon is cheaper with the fiber filled nylon falling between nylon and Delrin.
I would strongly suggest starting a discussion with whoever makes the polymer lowers and see about one of them making this. Whether it be NFA, OMNI, or E3 or the Plum Crazy guy. I've had 3-4 polymer lowers and they are plenty strong for your application.
If you take a solid block of Aluminum, Delrin, or Nylon and mill it on a CNC the majority of the cost is the same due to the machine work required. If you go with Nylon type material you open the door to injection molding, which may have a higher cost up front for molds, but cheaper overall on higher volume runs. You will need to weigh out where the costs overlap for what you want or foresee production falling into place. Will you make and sell 10,000 or just 250? That is going to determine whether you investigate injection molding or CNC. Either way Nylon will be cheaper, but how much I don't know.
Lastly, I believe the Bushmaster Carbon receivers are made out of (carbon)fiber filled Nylon. I don't know that you need the fiber filled Nylon. Tapco stocks are made from standard Nylon or a non-filled nylon blend.

Online Justin Hell

  • Bubba/Purist Flip Flopper
  • BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sharp-Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 1222
  • First Restore... Then Bubba.
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 12:34:26 PM »
My only experience with Delrin is Dunlop Guitar picks...the material itself is very durable...even in varied thicknesses that the picks come in, and lasts a loooong time. But with age I have noticed they start to warp....like a dish.  With the heat on a gun, that might lead to binding issues with mags over time.

As far as a price point...as low as you can go might lead to higher production and reduced costs.

My main thing that has kept me from the adapters is the price point. I have plenty of quality duckbills, and only two guns I would use them on...with bolt mods.  Now that I have a handful of ten round National Mags that the main problem is the duckbill itself...I can see myself tempted to throw some cash at modding them to functional status with an affordable adapter....once used to it, going pro might also be an option.

Cheap skates like me also are less likely to burn through as much ammo, facilitating the need for quick, easy mag changes.  A low priced 'starter' kit might just change that :)

I applaud the idea...and await more news about it!





All Bubbas deserve bayonets....figure out a way.
SKS-files.com and SKSguide.com....because everything else is just piss....

Coming soon!  SKSparts.net

Online 1mlt

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 370
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2015, 11:47:50 AM »
I'm going to chime in on the material. I investigated material use for my folding adapter blocks and found Delrin to be too brittle. I was told by plastics fabricators that it will not hold up to the elements. Specifically cold weather. You would be much better off using Nylon or fiber re-enforced nylon. That is the primary material used in the aftermarket stocks.
Also, if you look at the AR polymer lowers and the 9mm mag-well adapters for the AR platform, they are using the Nylon too. Might even be able to work with injection molding using the same exact material that New Frontier uses. You might even be able to go directly to the guys that made the New Frontier or Omni lowers and get them to make your adapter out of the same material they use.

As for a lower cost G-9 I might be interested.

Thanks for the input GG. We will look at the nylon filled option.
Marcus
There is but one language in the USA, English.
Teddy R.

Online 1mlt

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 370
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2015, 11:49:41 AM »
I would think they would be molded and possibly cleaned up afterward.  Talk about a reduction in lead time

LC, we buy them 100 at a time. We always have stock on hand. We ship within 3-5 days of order. It depends on what day of the week when purchased. We have to wait for the CC to clear as 'approved'.

Marcus
There is but one language in the USA, English.
Teddy R.

Online 1mlt

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 370
Re: We need some input from you guys please !!!
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2015, 11:51:50 AM »
My only experience with Delrin is Dunlop Guitar picks...the material itself is very durable...even in varied thicknesses that the picks come in, and lasts a loooong time. But with age I have noticed they start to warp....like a dish.  With the heat on a gun, that might lead to binding issues with mags over time.

As far as a price point...as low as you can go might lead to higher production and reduced costs.

My main thing that has kept me from the adapters is the price point. I have plenty of quality duckbills, and only two guns I would use them on...with bolt mods.  Now that I have a handful of ten round National Mags that the main problem is the duckbill itself...I can see myself tempted to throw some cash at modding them to functional status with an affordable adapter....once used to it, going pro might also be an option.

Cheap skates like me also are less likely to burn through as much ammo, facilitating the need for quick, easy mag changes.  A low priced 'starter' kit might just change that :)

I applaud the idea...and await more news about it!

JH, your comments are why we are 'exploring' this idea.

Thanks for the response.

Marcus
There is but one language in the USA, English.
Teddy R.