Author Topic: WWII German Luger  (Read 322 times)

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Offline Direct Connection

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WWII German Luger
« on: June 03, 2018, 05:44:01 PM »
My Boss inherited it from his Mom and Pops who got it from a neighbor who served in the Navy during WWII. He brought it back. I know nothing or very little about these master pieces but I told my boss I have a good source of friends that might know just enough about these little firecrackers to be dangerous : ) Joking !! Please Help..  He also inherited 1 Russian SkS and when I found out about that we became even better friends : )  Please comments and knowledge are welcome !! If more pictures are needed or questions PLEASE !!!! ask....   thumb1 Oh , And I don't know what the notches are from on the grips but I could almost guess ..  fart1























« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 11:57:18 AM by Direct Connection »
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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 07:53:39 PM »
Well thats nice..  thumb1

I'd guess its a mid 30's example and maybe a DWM or marked S/42, I have a few myself, but my Lugerese is a little rusty. I think aluminum base mags started in the mid' 30s, by a late 1937 they quit using straw colored parts, like the trigger and such.

I'm guessing at the year and maker above... I didn't see a photo of the top of the receiver, the year is usually stamped there and maker is usually stamped on the toggle link.

Is it number matching, every little part should be stamped, even the firing pin. If the magazine matches, that even better. It does have the usually military acceptance stamps.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

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Offline running-man

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 08:19:48 PM »
That's awesome DC, your boss is quite lucky.  thumb1

I can't add anything to what GM said, I have zero knowledge of German arms; WWII vintage or not.   Hopefully Donp will be around, that guy is a verifiable walking encyclopedia of Luger knowledge, he'll be able to tell you darn near every minute detail you want to know about it I bet.
      

Online Loose}{Cannon

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 10:49:13 PM »
 :o

Very nice!

Better message Blicero!
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Online Phosphorus32

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 11:10:05 PM »
Nice!  8)  I don't have much to add except the 8.82 is the original measured diameter of the bore on this particular barrel.

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 11:12:53 PM »


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Offline Direct Connection

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 11:24:52 PM »




Thanks everyone. I knew I didn't take enough pictures. But I thought I saw a mark that looked like the year of 1918 but im not sure now. and of course i missed that pic. I wrote down notes and will take and post up more pictures tomorrow. I found 1 more pic on my phone with the mag. I forgot to mention that the mag was loaded with some old milsurp ammo with the red sealant around the primer. Ill get a pic of the base of a bullet also. Thanks GM .. Really good stuff ! What does  DWM and s42 mean if you don't mind  wink1 Gotta remember who your dealing with here  chuckles1 Ill look again at the numbers on the mag to compare if they match..
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 11:29:49 PM by Direct Connection »
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Offline Direct Connection

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 11:27:33 PM »
Nice!  8)  I don't have much to add except the 8.82 is the original measured diameter of the bore on this particular barrel.

Got It : ) Thanks Phos.. Every little bit helps  thumb1 I see that number now..
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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 11:39:19 PM »
Does it speak German? 
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 11:53:00 PM »
Does it speak German?

Ill bet is still has an accent if it doesn't LC.. Those marks on the grip sure are a little creepy.. And that kinda stuff is what makes milsurp so interesting.. One can paint a picture : )
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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 12:01:49 AM »
DWM is Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken... in 1930-1930-ish Mauser absorbed DWM, then at some point, I think it went to S/42 which was Mauser, there were other codes used as well. Germany had a huge list of codes to hide the actual manufacture of weapons.

If the pistol is dated 1918, the magazine should have a wood base if original.

Get a shot of it like this.. this is my 1913 Erfurt, the maker will be stamped in the toggle link as shown. The year is commonly stamped above the chamber. This a commercial model that was drawn into WW1.



This shows what wood base magazines look like, they are both matching, and the clamshell holster.


Quote
I knew I didn't take enough pictures.

Dude...it's a Luger, you can never take enough pictures. chuckles1  This is why I bought a commercial mismatched Luger.. it resolved the guilt of shooting the others when the urge struck, if I break it, I just fix it and have no hard feelings.  chuckles1
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2018, 12:00:10 AM »
Thanks GM for all the help.  I got a few more pics today. I guess I need to change my title to WWI ? I cant believe these semi auto pistols were made over 100 years ago. No wonder they had an advantage : ) I kinda want one now..

https://www.use.com/Og18N?pop=false


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Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2018, 12:27:08 AM »
The magazine is from a later Luger, in the end, it's typical for most bringbacks, like K98 bolts sometimes not matching, the mag got lost before it makes it back to the states or gets lost to sands of time here in the states.. Who knows when it came here, could have been during either WW1 or WW2. Only the man who picked it up knows.

The ammo, regrettably, is typical Seller and Bellot modern stuff.

The Luger is pretty much the original wonder 9, 9mm Luger.. every 9mm since is because of that pistol. As for advantage, yes and no, compared to what we and other nations had for arms during that time frame, they were very futuristic, but close tolerances, hand fitted parts and an over complicated....err, over engineered action could cause issues when extremely dirty or when replacement parts were needed.

It's a real mind f*&k when you sit down with one, you wish they could talk, but secretly, deep down, you don't really want to hear or even imagine what they did or saw. nea1
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2018, 12:37:05 AM »
Bah....   I'll give you $750 for it so you can use it towards a good one.  Just this one time though because your my buddy and I feel bad. 

 :))
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline martin08

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2018, 09:21:13 AM »
As GM called it, WWI era DWM with WWII era aluminum bottom mag.

Even without the picture of the top chamber and toggle in the OP, the Imperial inspector and army acceptance marks on the right side barrel extension dated this gun to 1918 or earlier.

Tough to call which war it became a souvenir, but the later mag is a slight hint.  If it was WWII, it was one of a fair number of examples which escaped the Treaty of Versailles directive, which essentially destroyed all army 9mm guns, or updated them with a sear safety for police use.  These post-treaty Police Lugers were still allowed in 9mm, and will generally have a second date (1920) stamped over the chamber area, the retrofitted safety, and/or additional police unit markings.

DWM also continued new production of what are nicknamed the Alphabet Lugers from roughly 1920 through about 1923 for commercial, police and paramilitary use,  in .30 luger caliber.  And also made 9mm Weimar military and police units through approx. 1933.

As previously mentioned, a fair number of WWI era Lugers survived through the Weimar Period without being converted to police standards, and came back out of hiding in the early to mid-1930s when the Nazi Party came to rule. 

The grip carvings are assuredly non-German Army from either war, and could have been from post-WWI paramilitary, resistance faction, or post-capture by an Allied force.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 11:46:26 AM by martin08 »

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2018, 10:57:06 AM »
About the only thing I can add.. :)

In 1916, there were according to the list I have, about 140,000 of them made, it was the highest production year of that variant. DWM made just over 500k Lugers from 1913 to 1918, the model is listed as the 1914 Military.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

Offline martin08

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2018, 11:07:59 AM »
Here is a 1912 Erfurt factory Luger which likely went into hiding after WWI, and survived to fight again for Germany in WWII.  It escaped the Treaty of Versailles destruction, markings or conversion to Police.  I bought it from the brother in law of the deceased Veteran who brought it back from Paris in 1945.

Two mags are unmatched WWII with aluminum bottom, one post war with plastic bottom, and the other is WWI wooden bottom but mismatched.









Next is another DWM from 1916.  It also survived WWI and post-war destruction or Police conversion.  But it has somewhat unknown marking (suspected pre-1922 Reicshwehr-era Police or paramilitary?).  VERY interestingly, the 1915 Hohmann & Sohn holster has the date of the pistol, the original serial (twice), and the new unit numbers stamped on the back.

This one has a mismatched WWI mag with wooden bottom, and is also very likely to be a WWII bringback, but could be post-WWI occupation.










Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2018, 12:35:22 PM »
Along with what M08 has shown, and hand in hand with the one you show, the 1914 Military model in 1916, DWM was also producing these during the same time period... the LP.08 or also known as the Lange Pistole 08 or the Artillery Luger. Luckily, this one has the serial matching magazine.

There was also quite a contrast to production, 140,000 of the 1914s Military model made in 1916, where only 20,000 Artillery Lugers were made the same year., with around 155,000 LP.08s made in total from 1914 to 1918.





« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 12:55:44 PM by Greasemonkey »
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

The only way to avoid SKS #2 is avoid SKS #1!

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2018, 12:53:01 PM »
Come on GM !!  We need your support to thus thread 😁  You have got to have more to ad !!  When you going to break out your sleeper ?? Ha ha ha ha.. un reareal ... Thanks M08 for your support .. always makes a thread priceless when you two contribute to me possibly getting a raise at work 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣  This is really good stuff. Thanks Everyone.. And keep em coming 😊
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Offline martin08

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Re: WWII German Luger
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 01:04:21 PM »
Nice, honest and original Artillery, GM.   All I've run across at shows are the 1920s rebuilds or fakes, but would snap up one like that in a second!