Author Topic: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet  (Read 2777 times)

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Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #180 on: January 12, 2018, 10:57:37 PM »
L-C I think that you are reading it wrong. R-M to my way of looking at his reply is saying that it was transitioned in 49. Put a comma after his no and you will see what he means. His 2 pictures of 49s, one is even and the other is not
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 11:03:01 PM by jstin2 »

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #181 on: January 12, 2018, 11:13:31 PM »
Gotta love refurbs?
      
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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #182 on: January 12, 2018, 11:14:27 PM »
That settles it.  Cleaning rod retaining nubs change Jan 1st 1950.... Based off of zero original guns of course.   :-X

Nah, just one additional piece of data to add to everything else.  Nobody said anything about Jan 1, 1950 & you know it.  It actually looks to me like it was *the* very first design change that ever occurred on a '49 to me.
      

Offline pcke2000

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #183 on: January 12, 2018, 11:51:29 PM »
To RM,

Do all 1949s have the two equal length nubs? or do you think they are supposed to have the two equal length nubs? Thanks.

No there are photos of '49 spike bayos with unequal nubs in my database. They are refurbs of course, but it seems interesting that this feature provides a pretty clean delineation as I can find none occuring in '50 or beyond and I looked through every single '49-'53 gun in the database!  :o

Thank you, RM. I double-checked pictures of my 1949, it has unequal nubs.

Offline pcke2000

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #184 on: January 12, 2018, 11:59:15 PM »
Nah, just one additional piece of data to add to everything else.  Nobody said anything about Jan 1, 1950 & you know it.  It actually looks to me like it was *the* very first design change that ever occurred on a '49 to me.

To RM: very interesting observation. It looks like 1949 with s/n ЕУ 41 has the equal length nubs too. Unfortunately, it's a refurb with wrong stock and front ferrule.

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #185 on: January 13, 2018, 12:04:40 AM »
So cool for you to notice that RM!

Unfortunately, my neutered FSB's nubs are uneven....as are the nubs on the replacement she sports now from the 50 she got her other parts from. I got distracted by my Sciatica meds today and forgot to search for the calipers whilst she was gone. I did find that FSB obviously...I wonder if measuring both front of hole to front of sight on both holes might make it easier to tell if there is a difference vs. diagonal though.
The depth change I noticed might make it less noticeable of a difference....I wouldn't think these pins are placed willy nilly...
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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #186 on: January 13, 2018, 08:32:06 AM »
That settles it.  Cleaning rod retaining nubs change Jan 1st 1950.... Based off of zero original guns of course.   :-X

Nah, just one additional piece of data to add to everything else.  Nobody said anything about Jan 1, 1950 & you know it.  It actually looks to me like it was *the* very first design change that ever occurred on a '49 to me.

My point is...   How do you know 'when' if its a refurb? On top of that, we don't even know the order of prefix. 

I'd say we have no idea
      
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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #187 on: January 13, 2018, 08:38:57 AM »
Looks like it coincides with the lightening cut of the bayo lug.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 08:44:28 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #188 on: January 13, 2018, 12:45:53 PM »
Closer examination of the pics (with glasses on) regarding the cleaning rod nubs leads me to see only the first photo with a similar length for both sets of nubs....the others all appear normal to me.  Or am I missing something? 

Found the caliper...dead battery.  >:(  Stupid cats sleep where it was sitting on my desk. Hopefully I have a replacement that fits somewhere.
Will post measurments of several FSBs including the one that originally came on mine....once I get this sucker powered up.
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Offline pcke2000

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #189 on: January 13, 2018, 03:27:26 PM »
Closer examination of the pics (with glasses on) regarding the cleaning rod nubs leads me to see only the first photo with a similar length for both sets of nubs....the others all appear normal to me.  Or am I missing something? 

same as what I saw.

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #190 on: January 13, 2018, 03:34:09 PM »
My point is...   How do you know 'when' if its a refurb? On top of that, we don't even know the order of prefix. 

I'd say we have no idea

When there is a single example, such as jstin2's spike bayo then you have a valid point. When there are tens to hundreds of examples that show a definite trend like the bayo retainer nubs, then the refurb aspect becomes far less important.
      

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #191 on: January 13, 2018, 09:03:52 PM »
neutered sight that came on my 49/50 debate gun:
front edge of rear pin to face of sight: 50.6mm
front edge of front pin to face of sight: 4.5mm
offset between the two:46.1mm

Russian 50 sight I used for a replacement:
front edge of rear pin to face of sight: 51.0mm
front edge of front pin to face of sight:4.7mm
offset between the two: 46.3

no lightening cut Chinese/Russian?:
front edge of rear pin to face of sight: 51.5mm
front edge of front pin to face of sight: 4.8mm
offset between the two: 46.7

/906\ FSB:
front edge of rear pin to face of sight: 51.1mm
front edge of front pin to face of sight:4.3mm
offset between the two: 46.8mm

Random assumed Chinese poorly neutered FSB:
front edge of rear pin to face of sight: 51.7mm
front edge of front pi to face of sight: 4.7mm
offset between the two: 47mm

While these measurements were brought to you buy Pittsburgh Tool and Harbor Freight, they clearly show the amount of difference I was talking about above the averages of other sights tested. Especially of note should be the early 50 replacement difference vs. the original one on what I am calling a 49 for now.  That was what I experienced fitting the early 50 sight to my barrel.  I had to chip off a small sliver of barrel, picture a circle divided into quarters, one of those quarters minus maybe 15-20% of it needed to be removed in a forward and upward direction to the holes on the sight. This was also the case with the 52 sight I accidentally installed first, the rear pin conundrum was what made me notice that like an idiot I installed a totally period incorrect sight on it....the lightening cuts should have cut my stupid fingers.  banghead1

If I had a better set of calipers to measure the depth the pin placement would require on the barrel it would be another indication of a change at some point early on in pin placement alterations...for whatever reason.  This and the PITA it was to fit an early 50 cover to it vs the 49 makes me lean towards mine being a late 49...possibly during an either/or transition regarding bayonets....and or other minor modifications we haven't discovered yet.

The grind marks on Jstn2's cover and receiver towards the bottom make me think a half assed attempt at fitting was done to a possibly out of spec, but likely just ill fitting by design 50 cover onto a 49 gun.  Had I not known better (or been willing to do it right) I could have ground off the excess cover from behind rather than the pain in the neck front tang filing it required. Chances are once they got the tiny takedown pin hole lined up, they called it good.  I think that must be the case with this Jstn2's 49/50...I really would like to see the measurments front of pin to front of sight for both of his...the actual 49 and the '50' :)   In hindsight the diagonal measurements seem a little likely to be inaccurate...measuring to the face of the FSB at least lends one flat surface.

I know nothing about cleaning rod nubs. Yet another fascinating new discovery here at SKS-Files   8)

The amount of difference may be +/- a tenth of a millimeter or so, due to the tool used for the measuring....but the amount of difference between my original one and the fairly close to average differences on the other would be huge to the poor dumb bastard that has to pin those on straight. Ask me how I know.... :)   Since these pin placements are not easily visibly discerned...I doubt the refurb guys would want to go to the trouble of keeping the parts together...since it doesn't seem much care was applied towards the exchangeable parts that came once the design was complete.

I am pretty sure this was by design, and another reason I don't think is very likely that stock ferrules would be changed to upgrade to the blade standard....between the top and bottom pinning, you would be setting the barrel up for failure, as a notch on both sides would be akin to how you cut down a large tree....yknow?

That being said, I probably have the only 49/50 that deserves to be tested for the presence of both pin notches....but I am also chicken.
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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #192 on: January 13, 2018, 09:30:00 PM »
Quote
as a notch on both sides would be akin to how you cut down a large tree....yknow?

That being said, I probably have the only 49/50 that deserves to be tested for the presence of both pin notches....but I am also chicken.

But...  the fsb indeed has two pins.  Top and bottom.   This isnt a structural issue.

Drive the pin out and slide it....  they aint pressed on like a fsb.
      
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Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #193 on: January 13, 2018, 10:01:51 PM »
Justin Hell - Why would the grind marks on receiver and cover extend to latch pin hole on either side and why would there be grind marks on the front of receiver. Rust pitting. I can take some close up pictures later and post them, so you can see better what I mean.
I measured from back edge of pin hole to face sight. It was easier to see what I was doing plus part of pin was sticking out so I could get a better measurement.
1949 - 54.05  -  7.83  = 46.22
1950 - 53.90  -  7.79   =46.11
1951 - 54.05  -  7.92   =46.13
 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:25:58 PM by jstin2 »

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2018, 10:25:12 PM »
Just for giggles, i went to worstwestrifles page, because i know theres pics of "49s" there and did a highly scientific and entirely conclusive study of the rear fork nub things for the cleaning rod.



I saved this image as nohelpatall.jpg. because thats about what it is as far as i can see. wink1

Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2018, 10:30:27 PM »
I also went there earlier due to the fact that they have pictures of 49s. This would show that in 49 the transition of the nubs took place.

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2018, 10:54:40 PM »
Justin Hell - Why would the grind marks on receiver and cover extend to latch pin hole on either side and why would there be grind marks on the front of receiver. Rust pitting. I can take some close up pictures later and post them, so you can see better what I mean.
I measured from back edge of pin hole to face sight. It was easier to see what I was doing plus part of pin was sticking out so I could get a better measurement.
1949 - 54.05  -  7.83  = 46.22
1950 - 53.90  -  7.79   =46.11
1951 - 54.05  -  7.92   =46.13

The only problem is, measuring from the rearward side of the pin hole would be more than the difference I had noted, which was slightly less than half a pin width.   The one I did that was actually on a gun was a bit difficult...the 50 sight. All of the others were loose. I had to do the one on the gun several times as it kept slipping out of the tiny bit of depth I could grab onto. 

I look forward to the pics you refer to. I am not quite sure what you mean so they will help. :)
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Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #197 on: January 13, 2018, 11:08:06 PM »
It makes no difference about where the readings are taken. If you are looking for the differences, it is there. Very small. I looked back at the pictures that were taken by myself and my daughter and there is no definite pictures showing the extent of rust pitting on receiver/cover properly. Will take new ones in AM and post.

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #198 on: January 13, 2018, 11:17:53 PM »
Quote
as a notch on both sides would be akin to how you cut down a large tree....yknow?

That being said, I probably have the only 49/50 that deserves to be tested for the presence of both pin notches....but I am also chicken.

But...  the fsb indeed has two pins.  Top and bottom.   This isnt a structural issue.

Drive the pin out and slide it....  they aint pressed on like a fsb.

I was referring to the stock ferrule, if you upgraded from a spike ferrule to a blade ferrule you would have pin notches directly on either side of the barrel....not the same animal as the offset top and bottom pins of the FSB.  I am not saying it would be a huge structural problem, but it would be a weak point...and seemingly something that hopefully would be seen as a bad idea. Maybe not, it just seems like a bad idea to me. Since they placed concern over the blade notches and the cleaning rod holes being a stress point enough to blob them...perhaps they had the same mindset regarding two grooves 180 degrees apart from each other across the barrel.

I was mistaken regarding driving the pin out being the problem with the stock ferrule...it isn't the original pin, and is just a roll pin...it comes out easily, I forgot about that.  It was the breaking it loose from the barrel that didn't seem to want to happen....and I didn't want to bend it trying. The previous owner who cerakoted it obviously couldn't get it off either...that or didn't try beyond losing the original pin. It was evident that it wasn't completely stripped of it's BBQ at that juncture before they repainted it.  The same was noted around the gas block too.  Maybe the BBQ paint seeped into the cracks and made it extremely snug after nearly 65 years of curing by that point? 
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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #199 on: January 14, 2018, 12:20:56 AM »
Get an open end wrench that just goes over the barrel and tap on that so its done evenly and right where it meets the barrel.   You can even wrap the wrench with teflon tape, duct tape etc to make it not metal/metal.  Maybe even a thin rag.  It will drift much more easy then the rsb or fsb.
      
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