Author Topic: Letter D in Hardwood  (Read 8218 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2017, 11:17:19 AM »
M08..  I dont think it would have been mixed up with a similar serialed gun at refurbishment, but rather a dif serial parts were used after being scrubbed blank and ready to reserialize to whatever gun they were to be used on.  In the serialization process of the replacement parts, the worker flat out got the prefix wrong duck dong.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2017, 11:20:12 AM »
Its a good lesson in 'as ssued' though.....  Makes ya wonder if the worker got it right, would this be a 'as issed' gun in the eyes of the collector?  I would think yes, and also wonder how many 'as issued' guns are out there that were indeed reworked to some level and everyone thinks its a 'as issued".
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline martin08

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 408
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2017, 12:30:11 PM »
None of the wrong prefix parts show scrubbing and renumbering.  The refurbishment process could certainly have utilized un-numbered spare parts, and the incorrect prefix applied - after the scrubbing and application of the correct prefix on the mag and trigger.

I do think that there are plenty of as-issued gun out there.  But this is a great example of one which might have passed as original, if not for the prefix mistake.

An example like this should give us all good reason to do some detailed inspection before declaring a gun as original manufacture.  There are probably a good number of them with refurb evidence.

Offline Greasemonkey

  • Professional foul mouth. Banned for life!! Certified Enabler
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • The only way to avoid SKS #2, is avoid SKS #1!
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2017, 12:50:07 PM »
Is it me or... the font on the "3" different..  the 3 on the receiver has the usual straight line on the top, the "3" on the magazine and trigger guard has the top straight line with a little hangy do off the front edge...   Even the "0" font looks slightly different between the two places, one is more like a rounded fat "0", other looks like a more skinny "0"..

If it was refurbed by another shop with different font stamps, and stamped by a dyslexic stamper  thumb1


Just send that gumpy dyslexic stamped thing to me.. not a fan of Russians...but I am a huge fan of dyslexia..  :)
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline martin08

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 408
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2017, 01:27:18 PM »
Yes, GM.  The font, especially pertaining to the 3, is different on the two prefix part sets.  This discrepancy confirms that at least two different die sets were used, if not two different machine shop locations and/or time frames of refurbishment.

I'm not sure if you really want a dyslexic Russian.  "Gun shoot you" would revert to "You shoot gun", and it really becomes no different than a Chinese, Romanian, Yugo or Albanian.  But if you're willing to risk a dyslexic infection throughout the vault, and have all your other guns shooting at you, send me an offer!

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 6855
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2017, 02:56:43 PM »
Its a good lesson in 'as ssued' though.....  Makes ya wonder if the worker got it right, would this be a 'as issed' gun in the eyes of the collector?  I would think yes, and also wonder how many 'as issued' guns are out there that were indeed reworked to some level and everyone thinks its a 'as issued".

I think it's a better lesson in showing just how much we as a collecting community don't know about these firearms.  Like I've said before, w/o knowing the pedigree of a gun from initial fabrication, to acceptance, to issuance, to refurbishment, to storage, to re-issuance, and finally some type of final storage and sale to surplus, we really are pretty limited as to what we can and cannot attribute to any particular firearm.  'Unfired', 'unissued', and 'non-refurb' are automatically out the window.

If all S/Ns on this gun had the proper prefix (regardless of font style), based on the limited knowledge we do have, I would be forced to call it an 'as-issued' gun.  We just don't have any basis for not calling it that because much of everything else is subjective (such as the light stamps on the magazine M08 showed above) and to one collector these might be no big deal while to another they might be enough to be a deal breaker.   I've seen tons of guns with very light crossbolt stamps, light right-side stock acceptance stamps, shellac filled valleys of S/N stamps, or extra Cyrillic letters stamped where they really don't belong.  It's a tough thing to set a red line as the criteria because some of the subjective things I just mentioned may or may not be a big deal to certain collectors.  dntknw1

None of the wrong prefix parts show scrubbing and renumbering.  The refurbishment process could certainly have utilized un-numbered spare parts, and the incorrect prefix applied - after the scrubbing and application of the correct prefix on the mag and trigger.

I do think that there are plenty of as-issued gun out there.  But this is a great example of one which might have passed as original, if not for the prefix mistake.

An example like this should give us all good reason to do some detailed inspection before declaring a gun as original manufacture.  There are probably a good number of them with refurb evidence.
I think this is the most likely scenario Matt: Pristine hardware put in during the initial build that was stamped incorrectly and made it through final inspection.  The odds of matching any two numbers from two 9999 numeral sets is (1/9999)*(1/9999) or 0.000001%, so I'd have to say that's just not as feasible at all.  There is no way the Russians had 40 or 50 guns apart at a single time during refurb, what a nightmare that would be even with S/N to help match things up. 

It could easily be a mix-up during refurb, but the incorrect EP'd S/Ns sure seem to suggest that there was some kind of issue right off the line...unless no hardware (from gas tubes, to pistons, to RSLs, to buttplates) was EP'd right off the line to start with and we are delusional to think that a gun exists that hasn't ever gone through a refurb facility.... wacko1
      

Offline martin08

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 408
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2017, 09:50:20 PM »
Well, it will be someone else's mystery after it ships.

I had the mismatched prefix letter gun entered at $650 on my books, and it sold at $710 with 21 bids.  Very close to my guess.  Made just a little over $40.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/715878555

And the other 1954 Tula light refurb surprised me some.  I had it on the books for $675, and it sold for $835 with 37 bids.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/715881786

Same buyer on both Russians.  Two pretty nice guns.

The two Russian SKS's were in a three gun lot at the Poulin Auction, along with the mint 1963 Factory /26\ Public Security.  The entire lot was $1,725 with premium.

So, I got the Jianshe PS for about $210.  I could sell it for $250 and make a great profit!

Offline MxwllBkr

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Rifleman
  • *
  • Posts: 210
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2017, 09:37:50 PM »
So, I got the Jianshe PS for about $210.  I could sell it for $250 and make a great profit!


Check is in the mail you know where to send that PS.......... chuckles1

Offline martin08

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 408
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2017, 05:40:05 AM »
So, I got the Jianshe PS for about $210.  I could sell it for $250 and make a great profit!


Check is in the mail you know where to send that PS.......... chuckles1

Oh, crap.  I missed a digit.  Should be $1,250

 :)

Offline Greasemonkey

  • Professional foul mouth. Banned for life!! Certified Enabler
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • The only way to avoid SKS #2, is avoid SKS #1!
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2017, 12:13:44 PM »
So, I got the Jianshe PS for about $210.  I could sell it for $250 and make a great profit!


Check is in the mail you know where to send that PS.......... chuckles1

Oh, crap.  I missed a digit.  Should be $1,250

 :)

You would walk away with 33 bucks in profit of the total lot if you sold it for 250 thumb1  chuckles1 

33 bucks in some countries can get you.............. a really good time with a happy ending rofl2

I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Direct Connection

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 987
  • California is where reality goes to die.
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2017, 09:41:20 PM »
Yea !




I think if I remember, Oh Short Horn found that one at a garage sale   clap1  Very Nice example indeed Martin
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 09:46:33 PM by Direct Connection »

Offline martin08

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 408
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2017, 09:55:05 AM »
This is borderline moose abuse happening here.   :o

Offline Greasemonkey

  • Professional foul mouth. Banned for life!! Certified Enabler
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • The only way to avoid SKS #2, is avoid SKS #1!
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2017, 11:27:49 AM »
This is borderline moose abuse happening here.   :o

Oh... let me call PETA..    Protect Everything Thats Antlered Aint that what it stands for?  rofl2 chuckles1
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline martin08

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 408
Re: Letter D in Hardwood
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2017, 01:03:15 PM »
People Eating Tasty Animals...


... excepting moose.