Author Topic: CMP 1911s  (Read 96 times)

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Online Phosphorus32

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CMP 1911s
« on: December 04, 2017, 10:41:31 PM »
Wow, a few rules. No C&Rs accepted. Info from a CMP email today.

CMP 1911 Information
To all CMP constituents:
 
The CMP Board of Directors has discussed at length how the sales of 1911s would be handled, if the CMP were to ever receive them from the United States Army.
 
Some preliminary decisions:
 
Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt.
All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed.
Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting:  1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) successful completion of a NICS background check, 6) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.
The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person and successfully complete another NICS check by the recipient FFL holder before the pistol can be transferred.
Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year.
No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales.
CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world.
Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery.
Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders.
Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator.
The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP.
Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator.
When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one.
As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random.
 
Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer
Civilian Marksmanship Program

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 12:04:30 AM »
Saw this earlier. Garbage. Pure unadulterated unfiltered bureaucratic hotsetrash.
I’ll stick with gunbroker and Pawn shop deals that allow me the fully legal use of an 03, and the privilege of seeing what I’m buying before I chunk over a stack. I sincerely hope y’all score some 85% condition non refurbished non import marked 1915s. This should be a gun transaction, not a carnival barker sideshow snake oil lottery ticket. CMP may as well just go the classic firearms route. But instead of war eagles, let’s hype “freedom cannons” and “liberty ponies.”
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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 04:26:35 AM »
And four years later you get the gun.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 01:24:12 PM »
rofl on all of the above.

I think they're making it intentionally difficult since they expect demand to be so high.  fineprint mail1 whew1 With Mark's history since taking over in 2014, I expect they'll end up slapping market prices on these pistols and of course they will be sight unseen plus the extra expense of your FFL-01 fee, state taxes if your FFL collects them, all of the CMP specific paperwork that you wouldn't have to deal with on GunBroker or a ftf sale, as you say.

The only redeeming feature I see at this point is that CMP does have a good reputation. They have well-trained armorers that thoroughly disassemble, clean, reassemble and function test their firearms, then grade them conservatively.  thumb1 This is based on my experience with their M1 Garands, so those same people will need to get up to speed with M1911s. I also like that they're limiting purchases to 1 per person per year. People can currently still buy 8 Garands per year. I've seen them in Pawn Shops, etc., obviously directly from the CMP but marked up 35%, and that just steams me  >:(  fart1

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 02:09:53 PM »
You gotta wonder if all the req's are an attempt to stave off some kind of current or future political criticism on CMP.  "See we aren't shipping these pistols to their door!"

With all the different pistol laws throughout the country varying at a state, county, and even municipality level, I can't say that I blame them for taking the easy way out and just saying FFL01s can handle the final transaction.  The thing that boggles me is why they would require two NCIS checks.  That's just asinine, if you are going to use the FFL01...then USE the FFL01.  Maybe they are worried about what happens if the pistol gets stuck in no man's land because of a failed check at the FFL01.  It could still happen, just because you pass a check on Friday doesn't mean that you will pass it again on Monday.  Bureaucracy has a way of doing that....

I do know that I'm not going to be whoring myself to be first in line for one of these.  The M1 Carbine fiasco left a permanently bad taste in my mouth, I don't even maintain my CMP affiliated club status.
      

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 04:20:44 PM »
I still like the CMP and its mission overall. However, I'm certainly not excited by their current stated approach, and possibly $120+ in unnecessary fees and taxes due to disqualifying usage of my FFL-03. Nevertheless, I'll reserve final judgment on participating in any "lottery" for these until I see the actual prices and grades. If they surprise me and price them below market value for collectible grade pistols, I'll have to consider it. I may completely pass on the first year to see pictures of the pistols that people end up with, and wait for the second allotment of 10,000 pistols to show up. My current CMP eligibility status has lapsed and I'm certainly not in a hurry to renew for M1911s at this point.

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2017, 10:32:01 PM »
This came in an email today:

Quote from: CMP email
Note: 1911 type pistols purchased from CMP cannot be transferred to 03 FFL (curio and relic) license.  BATF and the United States Army prefer the second background check be performed by a "store front" FFL dealer.  Each customer purchasing a 1911 type pistol from CMP will be subjected to two NICS background checks, one performed by CMP and the other performed by the FFL dealer the pistol is being shipped to.

What a crock.  Either it's a lawful transfer or it isn't. Much of the federal gov would prefer nobody had a firearm, why aren't they just melting these things down to scrap?  The two background check thing is idiotic, why not three or ten?  Man this rots me. ireful1
      

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 10:33:16 PM »
$$$$$$$$
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 04:43:14 PM »
Just received a third email 'clarifying' (backtracking certain initial stupidity) CMPs position on this whole SNAFU. 

Quote
CMP will have an all-new 1911 order form, 1911 purchasing instructions, a 1911 page on our web site, a dedicated 1911 FFL fax number and email address for the FFL holder to send their FFL with customer's name attached. The customer will have to send in a complete new order packet with all new qualifying criteria included. Everyone will be a new customer, everyone starts with no advantage or disadvantage. CMP 1911 is an FFL governed operation and is a separate entity from CMP and has to have its own record keeping operation with no ties to the old CMP records.
Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt.  CMP will price at fair market value in accordance with CMP's enabling legislation.
Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 
1) proof of U.S. Citizenship,
2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club,
3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity,
4) a new form 2A with notary,
5) a signed copy of the 01, 02, 07 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.  These are "store front" FFLs.
  • A NICS background check will be performed by CMP on the customer to assure the customer is eligible to purchase prior to shipment to the "store front" FFL licensed dealer. The customer must receive a "proceed" from NICS prior to shipment of the pistol to the FFL licensed dealer.
    The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person at the FFL dealers place of business, successfully passing a NICS check, in which the information is provided by the FFL holder to NICS, before the pistol can be transferred.  This is a second NICS check performed on the customer.
  • Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year.
  • No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales.  All 1911 orders will come in via USPS, UPS, Fed EX, etc.
  • CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world.
  • Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery, USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, etc.
  • Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders.
  • Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator.
  • The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP.
  • Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator.
  • When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one 1911 type pistol.
  • As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grades and pricing options will be available.
Note: 1911 type pistols purchased from CMP cannot be transferred to 03 FFL (curio and relic) license.  BATF and the United States Army prefer the second background check be performed by a "store front" FFL dealer.  Each customer purchasing a 1911 type pistol from CMP will be subjected to two NICS background checks, one the information provided by CMP to NICS and the second the information will be provided to NICS by the FFL dealer in which the pistol is shipped.

Again, I have to wonder why the hell the US Army/ATF 'preferred' method (2x NiCS check, 'store-front' FFLs only, etc) trumps the 'legal' method (C&R/03 FFL on 1911's manufactured prior to 1967, any other 01 FFL regardless of 'store-front' status).  Are we at a point where a gov't agency can unilaterally decide whether or not to follow XYZ law?  Hey, how about the US Army / ATF decide that these can only be transferred after 5 NICS checks to class III dealers only?  It's much better right?  hunter)

I was reading through the facebook comments on this and the past two 1911 announcements, and a good majority (at least 4 to 1) are highly critical of eviscerating CMP.  Probably not a fun place to be a director at right now...especially when letters to members of congress start flowing asking them to find answers to this fiasco and CMP has to justify why they can add to the law whenever and wherever they see fit...
      

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 06:09:34 PM »
I assume, given the recent spate of that guy never should have had a gun events, they are just desperately trying to cover their ass ahead of time.  Note they wait for a proceed and not just the usual if we dont hear back in time you get it as well.

Now if you all just had gun licences like us folks up here, this wouldnt be a problem chuckles1

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 06:11:47 PM »
I looked and looked for the congressionally mandated FFL01 to FFL01 wording that supposedly exists and was unable to find it.  There is certainly a mandate that CMP become a FFL01 because these aren't .22 or .30 cal rifles, but beyond that it simply says they have to follow US firearms laws that every other FFL has to follow. dntknw1

It's interesting how they are interpreting the double NICS requirements too, that's a result of being CMP...well not really as they are going to be 'CMP1911' (which is separate from CMP), yet they are following CMP requirements for the club affiliation, eligibility, etc.  What a total mess.  dead3

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/2810/text#toc-HF94B7D802A594346A14DC196D3278396
with links to https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/40732 as well.
      

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 11:58:13 PM »
I'm leaning toward Foxtrot that noise! Now not only do I need two NICS checks, the second one has to go through a storefront FFL!

Next email says you'll have to donate $100 to the RNC, stand on your head and sing the Star Spangled Banner pitch perfect before being entered into a lottery for a chance to fight Chuck Norris and win, before being issued a golden ticket for the actual 1911 lottery. Holy cow!

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 12:52:38 AM »
 rofl
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

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Re: CMP 1911s
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 02:58:01 AM »
I'm leaning toward Foxtrot that noise! Now not only do I need two NICS checks, the second one has to go through a storefront FFL!

Next email says you'll have to donate $100 to the RNC, stand on your head and sing the Star Spangled Banner pitch perfect before being entered into a lottery for a chance to fight Chuck Norris and win, before being issued a golden ticket for the actual 1911 lottery. Holy cow!

But you get the choice of one of the two Oompa Loompas that deliver it for target practice....otherwise you have to pay for return shipping...for the spared Oompa Loompa. The other one gets to giggle all the way to the bank with the transfer fees.....they really want you to shoot the other one....Oompa Loompa control is high on the UN list of things to do.... I don't know what the penalty is if you shoot them both though...perhaps a notation in your bound book?
I think I will, for the time being....stick to the 1911 that came in my copy of Love Gun. chuckles1
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