Author Topic: /406\b Info and Data Collection  (Read 41158 times)

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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2015, 12:11:37 AM »
I have serious issues with the "0406" bs though.....   why I labeled it under the ? list as ?14
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Power Surge

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2015, 12:13:09 AM »
You made it happen bud, this is more your accomplishment than anyone else's.  Great job keeping up with the data (I know it's not always easy and the pay is terrible!) :) thumb1

Next thing to find out is to see exactly when the transition from short lug to pinned barrels actually occurred.  I have 15s that are short lug, and 17s that are pinned.  I have no clear views of any 16 lugs but that would be the transition year, either part-way through or in between years.  Common features across common years (regardless of prefixes) would be another good reinforcing data point.  It also would be really nice to find some 12 and 13 guns to find out how they got from that 11 to the 14's.

Years and years of very detailed auto restoration on important cars have made me have a great appreciation for details and history. I love tracking the small details :)

I usually scour the 'broker and local gun trader pages every few days, so I'll pay attention to any 0406b guns I find and post new info to add :)

Offline running-man

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2015, 12:15:49 AM »
I have serious issues with the "0406" bs though.....   why I labeled it under the ? list as ?14

Yeah, we'll have to make some revisions and probably drop the name to something less convoluted...
      

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2015, 12:17:41 AM »
I have serious issues with the "0406" bs though.....   why I labeled it under the ? list as ?14

Yeah, we'll have to make some revisions and probably drop the name to something less convoluted...

name?
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2015, 12:19:08 AM »
Every time I read 0406bee...   I blow chunks
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Power Surge

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2015, 12:20:26 AM »
I have serious issues with the "0406" bs though.....   why I labeled it under the ? list as ?14

When you take the survey, that's how it's listed. There is an actual number 406 triangle stamp, and then here is the multi triangle 406 stamp, I'm guessing hence the "b" .

BTW, the artwork you have listed here as ?14, looks like someone altered the 4 side, closing off the open leg. What's up with that?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 12:24:57 AM by Power Surge »

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2015, 12:30:15 AM »
I have serious issues with the "0406" bs though.....   why I labeled it under the ? list as ?14

When you take the survey, that's how it's listed. There is an actual number 406 triangle stamp, and then here is the multi triangle 406 stamp, I'm guessing hence the "b" .

BTW, the artwork you have listed here as ?14, looks like someone altered the 4 side, closing off the open leg. What's up with that?

The a/b crap came from howie and is an incorrect interpretation of the same stamp. There are several indications this stamp has a closed lower left #. There is also absolutely nobody that can say what order the three digits are supposed to be. Example... the /256\ RM decided with the crate and headstamp data. 
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2015, 12:32:39 AM »
This stamp has been seen with little chunks missing all over the place.....  Its ?14 unless I reorder the ? page.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Power Surge

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2015, 12:36:11 AM »
I have serious issues with the "0406" bs though.....   why I labeled it under the ? list as ?14

When you take the survey, that's how it's listed. There is an actual number 406 triangle stamp, and then here is the multi triangle 406 stamp, I'm guessing hence the "b" .

BTW, the artwork you have listed here as ?14, looks like someone altered the 4 side, closing off the open leg. What's up with that?

The a/b crap came from howie and is an incorrect interpretation of the same stamp. There are several indications this stamp has a closed lower left #. There is also absolutely nobody that can say what order the three digits are supposed to be. Example... the /256\ RM decided with the crate and headstamp data.

But....we have to call it something...  That's what it's been known as for a while; I don't see what it's hurting to continue using that designation. Do you not think my interpretation in my first post of this thread could be valid? All we are doing is just pointing out that same stamp on related guns. And every one of these guns I've seen definitely has a broken leg on the 4 side.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2015, 12:43:51 AM »
Then call it ?14

Like I was sayin...  this stamp and all the ones like are all over the map with chunks missing. Even "if" the chunk missing was accurate, I dont see a 4 at all with remaining lines out in left field. AND, nobody knows the order of those numbers.

Im not about to call it 0406bee when the b is invalid, the 4 is not a 4, and the order unknown.   :-\
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2015, 12:45:53 AM »
The survey was using howies designations early on and dozens of errors have been found.  Bet RM updates it soon enough, and the arsenal stamps shown here and on the guide are about to get a major update also
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Power Surge

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2015, 12:54:36 AM »
I understand your logic, it just seems counter productive to change it. I found info on more of these guns searching 0406b, I'm sure otherside will do the same. I can see if we found the real meaning of the stamp and then changing out what we call it.  But to change it from something it actually could be, to something totally unrelated and unsearchable just because we're now throwing it into an unknown list, just doesn't make sense to me.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2015, 01:01:53 AM »
Thats how it got so messed up to begin with.    :-X

Even RM will tell you how jacked up the old crap is and I have been updating the files drawings accordingly while RM has not done so in quite a while simply because a major update is coming and he only needs to do it once.

We dont need to call something 0406bee because others who royally jacked the whole thing up does.

Its not "unknown"...  its well known. We just cannot force something to be because thats what it was somewhere else etc. Thats not what the files is all about.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2015, 01:23:13 AM »
And its been in the ? catagory for a very long time ... this isn't a new revelation.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline running-man

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2015, 09:24:34 AM »
The a/b crap came from howie and is an incorrect interpretation of the same stamp.

Actually the a/b started with the survey, so I'm the guilty party for that one.  I just needed to call it *something* and we hadn't come up with a ? designator yet.  Howie calls the mark straight 0306 or 0406 depending on which part of the left leg appears to be closed.  This mark is considered /0406\a:

though to be honest I've never seen one in the wild.

After looking at all of the images I have of them, I think that the ?14 image that LC shows in the arsenal stamp FAQ is likely the correct one for all these stamps, and the ones without the legs are grouped in a way that a broken stamp is the most likely culprit (they probably only had a single stamp for a long period of time as this factory's production was only ~30k / year max.)

What everyone chooses to call it is really up to them I think.  Going forward, SKS-Files stickies, FAQs, and the new updated survey will likely call it out with a ? number and maybe we'll make reference to people referring to it as '0306'/'0406' in the past so any older posts on other boards can be more easily web searched.  At some point in time, hopefully we figure out the correct name and go with that from then on.

We'll need to research this factory a bit more and see if we can tease out any more tidbits of data.  The threaded to pinned transition is extremely relevant, this is the only factory I know of where this occurred (though you have to figure there must be others).  Also relevant is the 11th year production of the first gun in the list, 1966 means these guns were well out there for use in VN.  I remember reading about a supposed bringback with this stamp on it long long ago, but never quite really believed it until now.
      

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2015, 09:41:45 AM »
Oh.. gotcha.    I dont feel so horkish anymore.    rofl

I was refereeing to these other ones that appear to be closed off etc. Still has no effect on the three reasons previously listed as to why 0406 is a giant stretch in the first place, as I think you agree.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 09:57:39 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
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Offline running-man

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2015, 04:58:34 PM »
As for a 12th month, it could also be just that none have popped up yet.

Just found one: 12-15301xx

Fits well in the data.  thumb1
      

Offline Uzz75

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2015, 06:39:39 PM »
Cannot be a 7 after the 4?


Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2015, 06:50:27 PM »
It can be anything....  kinda why its ? #14
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Power Surge

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Re: /406\b Info and Data Collection
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2015, 07:20:59 PM »
As for a 12th month, it could also be just that none have popped up yet.

Just found one: 12-15301xx

Fits well in the data.  thumb1

I don't know about you...but to me this is really exciting. Not only does this arsenal's production back up the "first two digits" date theory, but this is the first (to my knowledge at least) time we've seen a "month" production identifier.