Author Topic: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm  (Read 137 times)

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Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« on: November 15, 2017, 09:18:39 PM »
Well I made a run at 2 mouse guns last week...and won. The first is a Italian Armi Galesi in 6.35mm... Blame that Boris Badinov guy for the inspiration.. inspiration...not enabling..big difference.  Hey... small....err... tiny guns need love too..  thumb1 :) This one is in the 426xxx range so it's newer than the one he posted. I have my doubts it was shot much. Has quite a few proof marks as well..






The second is a Hawes, still in the box w/cleaning brush..  Some places claim it was manufactured by J. Sauer & Sohn in Germany. It was imported by the Hawes Firearms Company of Los Angeles, California. Again, like the Galesi, it has several proof marks.. I believe the 68 in the shield is the proof date. These were imported in the 1950's and 1960's before GCA 68 effectively banned them. It's an alloy slide and frame, not to sure what kind of finish it has, but it is very reminiscent of the epoxy coat on a Czech Cz82. The magazine holds 6 rds.










And I scored a few collectible boxes of old .25acp ammo too..




Did I mention they are are small... especially when shown up against a hand cannon.. :o  The alloy Hawes pistol weighs in at a whopping 11 ounces empty vs the 86 ounce optic equipped empty Desert Eagle.


« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 01:21:12 AM by Greasemonkey »
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Online carls sks

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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 09:11:27 AM »
nice ones to add to your collection.  thumb1
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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 03:45:08 PM »
Neat pistols  thumb1  8)

I like the grips on the Galesi. The PSF and star is a Gardone and Brescia final proof. The XXII date indicates production between 10/28/43 and 10/27/44, the XXII year of the fascist regime. Interesting, since Mussolini was removed on July 28 1943 and the Italian armistice with the allies was September 28, 1943. So this pistol was produced quite late in WWII, after capitulation of Mussolini's former government in the south. Since Brescia is in Lombardy in northern Italy, your pistol was produced under the German controlled Italian government (with Mussolini installed as the puppet leader, d. 4/28/45), where they still used that Roman numeral dating convention.

On your German Hawes pistol, the hatched shield is apparently a Munich proof house mark used from 1968 on. The N eagle was the final nitro (smokeless powder) commercial proof used since 1952, so your supposition that the 68 is for the year of production/proofing sounds likely.


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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 04:10:03 PM »
Neat pistols  thumb1  8)

I like the grips on the Galesi. The PSF and star is a Gardone and Brescia final proof. The XXII date indicates production between 10/28/43 and 10/27/44, the XXII year of the fascist regime. Interesting, since Mussolini was removed on July 28 1943 and the Italian armistice with the allies was September 28, 1943. So this pistol was produced quite late in WWII, after capitulation of Mussolini's former government in the south. Since Brescia is in Lombardy in northern Italy, your pistol was produced under the German controlled Italian government (with Mussolini installed as the puppet leader, d. 4/28/45), where they still used that Roman numeral dating convention.

On your German Hawes pistol, the hatched shield is apparently a Munich proof house mark used from 1968 on. The N eagle was the final nitro (smokeless powder) commercial proof used since 1952, so your supposition that the 68 is for the year of production/proofing sounds likely.



I was 10 or so years off.. I was figuring mid-late 50's on the Galesi.. based off the fancy non-military style grips. But, I hadn't really dug much into it as of yet. ???   So is it military...or a commercial weapon? I cant imagine Germany having commercial weaponry built in the middle of a raging war.

The Hawes.. this is a hard one to find info on. I figured the second mag was maybe a spare, like possibly an aftermarket magazine for the pistol just missing the plastic finger rest, after I cleaned it up, I found a faint FN stamp on the side of the magazine. So I commenced to looking, trying to ID it... someone fitted a FN Baby Browning magazine to it. It fits and latches in perfect, but comes up maybe about a 1/16 too short, if that. The slide just barely slips over the case head and won't quite feed.

So... I guess... maybe... I have to go find a Baby Browning now.. :)
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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 05:27:36 PM »
Neat pistols  thumb1  8)

I like the grips on the Galesi. The PSF and star is a Gardone and Brescia final proof. The XXII date indicates production between 10/28/43 and 10/27/44, the XXII year of the fascist regime. Interesting, since Mussolini was removed on July 28 1943 and the Italian armistice with the allies was September 28, 1943. So this pistol was produced quite late in WWII, after capitulation of Mussolini's former government in the south. Since Brescia is in Lombardy in northern Italy, your pistol was produced under the German controlled Italian government (with Mussolini installed as the puppet leader, d. 4/28/45), where they still used that Roman numeral dating convention.

On your German Hawes pistol, the hatched shield is apparently a Munich proof house mark used from 1968 on. The N eagle was the final nitro (smokeless powder) commercial proof used since 1952, so your supposition that the 68 is for the year of production/proofing sounds likely.



I was 10 or so years off.. I was figuring mid-late 50's on the Galesi.. based off the fancy non-military style grips. But, I hadn't really dug much into it as of yet. ???   So is it military...or a commercial weapon? I cant imagine Germany having commercial weaponry built in the middle of a raging war.

I think Germany and occupied territories still produced some commercial pistols (likely only available to military or political party officers) until very late in the war. Of course that XXII could have nothing to do with Il Duce's Fascist regime and have some other meaning entirely. I really don't know anything about these pistols or the Galesi, Brescia firm, so I'm spit-balling. The Carcano rifles always had the calendar year, e.g., 1942 in addition to the "regime year", e.g., XXI since they weren't the same (the latter was October 28-October 27, so rather confusing but they had to stroke Il Duce's ego). The lack of the calendar year on this pistol is a clear difference from the military rifles.

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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 11:46:13 PM »
Neat pistols  thumb1  8)

I like the grips on the Galesi. The PSF and star is a Gardone and Brescia final proof. The XXII date indicates production between 10/28/43 and 10/27/44, the XXII year of the fascist regime. Interesting, since Mussolini was removed on July 28 1943 and the Italian armistice with the allies was September 28, 1943. So this pistol was produced quite late in WWII, after capitulation of Mussolini's former government in the south. Since Brescia is in Lombardy in northern Italy, your pistol was produced under the German controlled Italian government (with Mussolini installed as the puppet leader, d. 4/28/45), where they still used that Roman numeral dating convention.

On your German Hawes pistol, the hatched shield is apparently a Munich proof house mark used from 1968 on. The N eagle was the final nitro (smokeless powder) commercial proof used since 1952, so your supposition that the 68 is for the year of production/proofing sounds likely.

Ok.. seems on Galesi dating... Model 503 B, it's a 1966 proof date.. judging by the 426xxx serial and maker on the side.. it's maybe plausible based on info below..

"Soc IT Flli Galesi Brescia"  They started using this name around serial number 200,000. The name on the slide of earlier ones was: "Armi Galesi-Brescia Breveto".
Up until 1953, the year of the test proof was in Arabic numerals, 1954 they switched to Roman numerals, so the XXII is proof date, not a manufacture date, so 1954 with X (10), then XI for 1955, XII for 1956, and so on..


Quote
Galesi Manufacture Dates

The following codes will tell you the date of manufacture of the little Galesi pistols. It usually appears on the right side of the frame either behind or over the trigger:
Year Code
1954 = X
1955=XI
1956=XII
1957=XIII
1958=XIV
1959=XV
1960=XVI
1961=XVII
1962=XVIII
1963=XIX
1964=XX
1965=XXI
1966=XXII
1967=XXIII
1968=XXIV
1969=XXV
1970=XXVI
1971=XXVII
1972=XXVIII
1973=XXIX
1974=XXX
1975=AA
1976=AB
1977=AC
1978=AD
1979=AE
1980=AF
1981=AH
1982=AI
1983=AL
1984=AM
1985=AN
1988=AP
1987=AS
1988=AT
1989=AW
1990=AZ
1991=BA
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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2017, 03:02:30 AM »
Ah-ha! So you've got one C&R from '66 and another just 1.5 months shy of C&R status. That's a handy chart for the Italian dates  thumb1

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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 03:14:37 AM »
Ah-ha! So you've got one C&R from '66 and another just 1.5 months shy of C&R status. That's a handy chart for the Italian dates  thumb1

Like I said.. I can not confirm or deny the correctness, but that dating mess is plausible.

There remains a third pistol from this same lot :o  that I just ain't got around to posting yet... it's is C&R too   :)  I have just had a case of I don't feel like it at the moment. senil1  rofl2
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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 05:49:02 PM »
Nice haul. I'm a big fan of mouse guns and pocket pistols.

I'm not familiar with the Hawes. I dig 20th surplus and old school pistols with original boxes.

I've got minty 1956 Armi Galesi (no roman numeral date stamps)-- from what I can tell it's a Model 9 in 6.35mm/24 acp. Had some problems with mags not fully seating. But it's a solid, dependable shooter. I put about 50 rounds through it with zero failures.

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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 08:45:48 PM »
Nice haul. I'm a big fan of mouse guns and pocket pistols.

I'm not familiar with the Hawes. I dig 20th surplus and old school pistols with original boxes.

I've got minty 1956 Armi Galesi (no roman numeral date stamps)-- from what I can tell it's a Model 9 in 6.35mm/24 acp. Had some problems with mags not fully seating. But it's a solid, dependable shooter. I put about 50 rounds through it with zero failures.

Boris B.. your pictures are gone, I went to look and compare when I drug the dinky thing home... Everyone say thank you so fricken much bat1 Foto-suckit.....

I found this digging.. luckily it comes up on the 2 pages I wanted.

 https://books.google.com/books?id=okQH6zFgDtUC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=Armi+Galesi-Brescia+Brevetto+name+change&source=bl&ots=MFATJ9nYuy&sig=LDOYtBI7tgAmvkCLVggHW4x1bBw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIwfLIv8nXAhUY72MKHZAmBLcQ6AEIZTAJ#v=onepage&q=Armi%20Galesi-Brescia%20Brevetto%20name%20change&f=false
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Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 02:03:17 AM »
Cant seem to dig up the file where I stored the pictures from the post. But here's a link to the  gunboards post for the same pistol:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?768954-Armi-Galesi-6-35-1956-Near-NIB

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Re: Hawes and Armi Galesi 6.35mm
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 02:40:48 AM »

Two of the things off the bat that I see different, is the machine work on the nose of the slide.. and the knurling on the safety..  Sorry.. I borrowed your picture.. :)

The magazines bases you mention look the same..



I said I was an addict. I didn't say I had a problem.

It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what....