SKS-FILES FORUM

SKS Carbines => Altered SKS Rifles => Projects => Topic started by: Justin Hell on December 31, 2016, 07:48:08 PM

Title: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on December 31, 2016, 07:48:08 PM: Day One, Part one...probably:

This, is how I received this...delivered on the last day of a relatively crummy year, to my delight...and a little dismay.

But, I enjoy a challenge...and this bubba needs a bayonet, and somehow, whether I have to restore this darn thing as close to whole to do it...this will have a bayonet again.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3018.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3018.jpg.html)

I think that is a zero rather than an O, based on other parts...the whole serial on the receiver is haphazard and sloppily struck. the next character is a brutally struck 1.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3054.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3054.jpg.html)

Some of the marks around the barrel lug...sorry about the crummy photo, I am sure I will get a better one later...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3053.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3053.jpg.html)

90 degree gas block, held in with a roll pin.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3051.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3051.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3050.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3050.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3049.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3049.jpg.html)

Stock ferrule.... Look Ma! No pin!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3047.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3047.jpg.html)

Rear of ferrule... no weld blob, that is metal pushed inward from the cutting in of the blade notch, on an otherwise non reinforced, but normal sized (I think) ferrule...that started it's milled life with only a cleaning rod hole, although there is a faint little nub of what might have been a very shallow spike U...could just be a tool mark from the notch cut...tough to say.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3046.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3046.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3044.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3044.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3043.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3043.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3038.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3038.jpg.html)

Potential reason for the blob weld shown here...that is a hairline crack on a blobless ferrule.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3034.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3034.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3030.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3030.jpg.html)

There is a hole missing in the Krink styled bolt on brake I have thus far been afraid to remove...it is not just canted, the holes on the top and other side would form a misshapen crescent if it were...I dunno beans about these Krink brakes other than they look cool and were originally intended for an SBR. Seems to me like it would incite rather than tame barrel whippage...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3029.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3029.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3027.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3027.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3026.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3026.jpg.html)

I will betcha all this time you were thinking this thing was particularly, severely, refurbed at a BBQ factory...but it is much worse...it is the art of Bubba...who had this before me...I swear, nothing you see here is my fault. This gun is thoroughly, and nicely painted with what I assume to be Duracoat? Here is an example of where the benefit of masking tape is thankfully evident.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3025.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3025.jpg.html)

Loop takedown lever...and a Genuine Norinco BEC steel scope mount....which fits like a glove on a very snug bug...we are talking return to zero for sure without any further Bubbage needed secure. I hate how secure it is. A lot.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3024.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3024.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3023.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3023.jpg.html)

William's peep sight along with a two piece Chinese gas tube with the obligatory Bubbattachment for the kitchen...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3022.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3022.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3021.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3021.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3020.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3020.jpg.html)

Looks like it means business, don't tell it that it has been neutered...more on the innards later. Heck, it is New Year's Eve...and despite this being my first one sober, doesn't mean I don't have **** to do.

Like running around the house going yee haw!! Check out my first Russian SKS!!
:)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3019.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/DSCN3019.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: armedhippie on December 31, 2016, 09:28:00 PM: Congrats brother thumb1

Your first Russian eh? You know the old saying about opinions right....something like every A-hole has 1 ...or something like that I'm sure rofl but....I say FULL on restore that bad boy and move all those Bubba parts ( gotta admit for bubba parts they are sweet as I'm sure you know) to 1 of your other cool project guns.

I mean damn man....you got a righteous 90degree gas block there. thumb1 NOW spill the beans on that bolt and carrier and firing pin buddy... inquiring minds want to know....
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on December 31, 2016, 11:51:21 PM: Day One, Part 2:

Lets get into the guts of this puppy and see what there is under the hood. It does look more like a hood scoop than a scope mount right? Especially all nekkid without a scope...but let's not get ahead of ourselves. :)

Matching piston...complete with greasy grimey gopher guts. 'Gunsmith cleaned and inspected' huh...I had a hell of a time getting the Chinese gas tube on and off, it is quite tight...I doubt 'he' bothered to attempt beyond the latch snagging on the roll pin for the Williams sight...I digress...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3062.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3062.jpg.html)

Some shots of the inside of the gas block, people knowledgeable about refurbs let me know if you see anything to worry about here...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3063.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3063.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3064.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3064.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3065.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3065.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3066.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3066.jpg.html)

Op rod and the supplied spring, which is not the typical rope spring...it is, well...just a regular ol' spring. Is this normal?

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3067.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3067.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3069.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3069.jpg.html)

Cosmoriffic bolt carrier...remember when I said that scope mount was secure? It was so secure it was covered in cosmoline as well...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3070.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3070.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3071.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3071.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3072.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3072.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3073.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3073.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3074.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3074.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3080.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3080.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3082.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3082.jpg.html)

Bolt...again, kinda slimy with cosmo....if this wasn't spring loaded I think Bubba may have been a candidate for an incident at the range...I am amazed at this point the duracoat is even sticking.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3083.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3083.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3087.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3087.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3088.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3088.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3089.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3089.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3091.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3091.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3093.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3093.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3094.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3094.jpg.html)

Blued recoil spring assembly

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3095.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3095.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3096.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3096.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3097.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3097.jpg.html)

Magical latch thing that for some reason was a bad idea? I love it!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3098.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3098.jpg.html)

Various shots of the receiver...in the white internally, for the most part...how normal this looks is up to the experts I would love to hear from.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3099.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3099.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3100.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3100.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3101.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3101.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3104.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3104.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3105.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3105.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3106.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3106.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3107.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3107.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3109.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3109.jpg.html)

No chrome down the pipe...with a crummy view through the muzzle contraption, and my inability to get a decent shot...but here they are anyway...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3113.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3113.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3115.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3115.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3116.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/innards/DSCN3116.jpg.html)

That is all for this year folks...I will be back in a few hours with more I am sure.
Happy 2017 everybody!
8)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: armedhippie on January 01, 2017, 12:15:36 AM: Original spring loaded firing pin/bolt and carrier? Oh Yeah! thumb1 That's what I wanted to see. Welcome to the club brother. Mines a transitional '50 w/o that sweet gas block but your gonna love that spring loaded pin. I'll be damned if I ever figure out why they changed to a free floating, other than cost/time, cuz I've put over a 1000 rds down the pipe w/o a hiccup. NOW you just gotta full on restore :))
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on January 01, 2017, 12:56:11 AM: Justin,

The op rod spring is an original '49 or transitional '50. They were solid wound like that before they changed the design to the muliple strand coils we're all used too.

That first 0 in the S/N is an oh, not a zero. The Russians used the same stamp for both. The reason we know it's not a zero is because there are no documented cases (that I'm aware of anyhow) of Russians using leading zeroes in their SKS S/Ns (XX#, XX##, XX###, and XX####, never X0####).

Aside from the gas tube and missing original cover, I'd say you've got the complete '49 package there. If you can get the paint off, and with all the cosmo I think that's a good possibility, you'll be golden. Aside from the semi-easily replaced neutered bayo lug, there's nothing irreversible there. thumb1
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on January 01, 2017, 04:38:43 PM: Congratulations!! You got some real nice and rare parts in the package!
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 03, 2017, 05:57:21 PM: Thanks guys...more pics coming up, but I thought I would reply here first.

I plan on getting it as close as I can to original. I may just get a regular Russian trigger group, I found one comically similar to my serial...
My serial, EO1851...the trigger group, 3п182O, something a dyslexic Ivan could have messed up at the factory right? Notice I used an O for the zero RM. :)

My question, is there any reason, other than not being year correct that a regular 'modern' Russian trigger group would be a bad idea? It seems as if they changed something like the safety after the first year and never used that design again, it was for a reason...and since I doubt I would ever find a blank one, would it make sense just to get the aforementioned one? What is the deal with either having a rebound disconnector vs not having one? I am not exactly sure what it does...and whether anything else with the early features would be affected if suddenly there was one.

I have a line on the proper FSB, and they have several, pretty reasonably priced to...as I sit here looking at a perfectly good Chinese FSB banghead1

I will show what I have done thus far in the upcoming picture thread...coming right up here in a few.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 03, 2017, 06:54:28 PM: Day 2:

My attempt to contact the person I got this from continues to go unanswered, but I am going to progress as if there is a chance I may at least get the receiver cover....one can dream right?

I have her roughed in and I am making progress, I am using my 78 /26\'s older stock set, as I found an unserialed one for it finally, and it fits pretty nicely, and the inverted takedown notch works quite well with the looped lever on the Russian.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3118.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3118.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3120.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3120.jpg.html)

I borrowed a sight ladder from a Chinese that has been floating around since a Scoutscopes install, and swapped the Williams to a more deserving rifle...I have a line on unserialed unissued proper sight ladders from Russia that will replace this soon.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3121.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3121.jpg.html)

I have tried and failed to loosen the allen screws on the Krink, and am wondering if the funky directions of the vent holes are there for some kind of reason...as if it was tuned to whatever natural whip the gun makes inherently. I am going to have to put a few rounds through it to see if I can break the loctite that must have been used loose...otherwise I am going to strip the heads out. :(

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3122.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3122.jpg.html)

I took out the stupid Tapco orange post...that was pretty much invisible to me...and experienced the joy of installing a steel one for the first time...if you haven't tried it...do...it is a real effin treat. I had initially thought that the FSB was canted, but I was wrong...somewhere between the Williams aperture sight, the funky Krink holes and the silly plastic post...it gave an optical illusion I suppose. Between the ladder and post replacement...heck this thing is turning into an SKS!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3123.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3123.jpg.html)

Off came the ill fitting pain in the neck two piece Chinese tube and on went a milled one piece...is there a difference between the Russians and early Chinese? I had a blank one, so I used it for this...and am hoping I can at least get away with that and still be correct.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3127.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3127.jpg.html)

Duracoat scraping off with every flip of the lever...I am wondering what I am going to find under that stuff....worried in fact...as this gun one would think would have been factory BBQed...and perhaps the spray paint over it will reveal bubba's attempts at removing it....I am torn as what to do....

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3130.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3130.jpg.html)

This crap has got to go...I am wondering if it is possibly just regular spray paint...it isn't very durable.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3132.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3132.jpg.html)

I am kind of digging the look of this, too bad it is soooo very wrong.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3136.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3136.jpg.html)

Since the scope cover fits so damn well, I will have to stick to it for awhile, I decided to put my best Red Star on it, the cool one with the post reticle....I really love this scope, I need to find more with this reticle...if anyone ever sees one....help a fella out!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3137.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3137.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3138.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3138.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3139.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3139.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3142.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3142.jpg.html)

End of day 2...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3144.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3144.jpg.html)

Day 3

The paint on the bolt carrier just has to go, so I hit it a couple times with some Kleen Strip premium stripper and got all that sorry crud off...this is looking pretty nice, and I am contemplating whether to stop now or not regarding the paint...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3146.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3146.jpg.html)

BTW...that is a Yugo mag hanging down there...it fits, it's unserialed...sort of, and it works...turns out, this gun will not accept detachable mags of any sort. I am wondering if that is what stopped bubba short...so, any attempt at having any fun with this one goes out the window because of the mags, the bolt one should deserve a public flogging if one were to do the drop free mod upon, and that stupid 922r ****. Maybe the loss of the bayonet lug helps in that regard...but I am not going to look it up and try wrap my brain around that nonsense again. This will be in military configuration. WITH A BAYONET again eventually...this is just a mock up until the replacement parts arrive...for those with legal concerns. fineprint

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3147.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3147.jpg.html)

Fuzzy but no paint!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3148.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3148.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3149.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3149.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3150.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/day%20two/DSCN3150.jpg.html)

End of day 3....off to look at parts n stuff...

Any help in locating the proper parts would be nifty...I don't know what a proper stock for this one would be...Laminate or Hardwood?
I really like it how it looks at the moment, despite it being so very very wrong...anyone with proper parts just laying around is encouraged to help me get this baby back to normal.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 03, 2017, 07:28:27 PM: banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1

I just found my mag and trigger group....sold at a previous auction by the same seller....who won't return my messages....

banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1 banghead1
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 03, 2017, 07:41:40 PM: oops, I panicked...seems as if the mag and trigger group weren't in the auction...just posing for my internal turmoil....I sure hope he didn't previously sell them...and that he gets back to me....ugh!

cross your fingers
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: montigre on January 04, 2017, 07:31:18 AM: Lovin this story---keep it up Justin!! And I'm keepin my fingers crossed that the seller still has the parts you need!
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on January 04, 2017, 11:01:13 AM: No reason that a '53-'58 Russian trigger group (or Chinese, or Yugo, or Romy, or Alby) shouldn't work Justin. The differences are all internal to the trigger group as far as I know: rebound disconnector, rebound disconnector pin, safety rebound spring, and oval vs. round access hole.

You might try and hit the kink set screws with a heat gun to see if you can loosen up that loctite. I always find that heat works well when Loctite 262 or something stronger like true two part epoxy is used. Loctite 222/242 sometimes can be broken w/o the heat, but 262 is a real bear sometimes.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 04, 2017, 12:30:07 PM: The seller finally got back to me, he is out of town...but will check his inventory when he returns.
:)

This tells me...
1- He has no personal relationship with this gun
2- He doesn't recall selling them....but might have
3- He probably isn't aware there is probably a couple hundred in parts alone, and probably a trigger job done on the FCG...as I see a Murray's hammer and trigger....and likely a new spring set. All of which will come in handy for other builds, and it contains the joy of a new mini restore project on it alone....
4- There is the chance that the original receiver cover might still be a possibility.

The mag and trigger group were in an auction that ended a couple days before this did....with a beautiful Fajen rainbow laminate stock, but just in the picture...for whatever reason....as they were not included, nor was the rest of the gun...which he still had....but wasn't pictured. I dunno....but I only unclenched my crossed fingers to type this.

All of this comes as I have auctions coming to a close for some of the parts I need...mainly the dyslexic serialed trigger group, which ends today. So I may be missing that one. :(

The fun part about all of this, is I am learning about Russians from the beginning. It makes you wonder just how many of the 1949 gun's are made from the original prototype designs used in WWII...and/or the parts. They sure were doing a lot of fine tuning in the first couple of years of production. Seemingly, they let no parts go to waste as they evolved from 49-52, so you might think that some of the 49's parts are actually older. It sure would be nice to see the up close and personal bits of the prototypes.

Another couple of things I would like to ask of anyone reading this out there with a spiker 49, how long is the bayonet? How do they compare to a M44/T53 bayonet? It would be handy if they were one in the same. For the prices I have seen for the black blades, I might as well get the spike when it turns up...I have an Albanian that can sit there and pretend to be Russian in the meantime. Once I get the FSB and handle that is.

I would really like to fire it to see what is up with the brake...but as I typed this, as the sun comes up...it went from -2 to -3...so that is not happening anytime soon....shivering whilst trying to measure what the end of the barrel is doing while firing probably would lead to faulty results. :)

Perhaps, the brake will loosen when/if I develop the courage to try stripping the gun of its paint. It is a daunting task...and I am still afraid of what I will find underneath. Otherwise I will try to throw some heat on there if that or shooting a tad doesn't break stuff loose.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on January 04, 2017, 07:46:06 PM: Nice project! Hope you can get the original magazine and trigger group!
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 05, 2017, 12:36:32 AM: Quote
experienced the joy of installing a steel one for the first time...if you haven't tried it...do...it is a real effin treat

rofl rofl :)) chuckles1 clap1

Nice going so far Justin... this is a great little project and thread, sorry Im late to the party!
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Power Surge on January 05, 2017, 10:24:53 PM: Concerning the hole placement on the Krink.... that's intentional. It has to do with counteracting the rise angle of the AK. If you look at a standard AK slant break, the slant is actually angled up and to the right, not straight up. The holes in the Krink are made to push down and to the left.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 06, 2017, 05:14:03 PM: Quote from: Power Surge on January 05, 2017, 10:24:53 PM
Concerning the hole placement on the Krink.... that's intentional. It has to do with counteracting the rise angle of the AK. If you look at a standard AK slant break, the slant is actually angled up and to the right, not straight up. The holes in the Krink are made to push down and to the left.

Thank you!
That confirms what I thought had to be the logic behind that...especially when you take note of how much crap the previous owner did to this. It does look kind of unfinished the way it is drilled, but that makes perfect sense.

I still cannot get the set screws to budge. Now that I know the brake is a little more high tech than your average one...I am starting to suspect it must be threaded on, right? It seems too fancy to be just held on with set screws...and if it is, it seems unlikely that the PO didn't drill in dimples for them to set into. I have another nearly identical in appearance, but the ports are even, and point roughly 45 degrees in either direction...centered...that is threaded, but has no set screws, but the divot for the AK mount, which this lacks. I haven't seen another like the one on the Russian, but a few out there similar to the other, which is in the $20 range. I have been hemming and hawing over which gun to break down and install that on for years...and that was over a few mismatched project guns that I couldn't decide which to do such a thing to....this gun is like pre-karma I suppose.

I am hoping this was either professionally tuned to the gun, or the SKS and AK have similar rise issues. For the time being, I am just going to leave it on (as if it is giving me a choice)...even though it is a major stumbling block to overcome to reach my ultimate goal. :-\
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 06, 2017, 05:34:59 PM: Here is a slideshow of her in the white, I have a little more cleaning to do before rebluing. It appears as if the previous owner bead blasted this possibly...I could be wrong...but it has a faint orange peel look to the steel. The import stamp seems to have been largely obliterated in the process...which explains why it was nearly impossible to read under the paint. I do wonder if this was previously BBQed before being repainted anyway, and the import stamp was largely in the paint....regardless, I suspect rebluing might make it pop out a little better...it is pretty shiny right now.

As much as I wanted to dress her up in bubba furniture while it was in the white, I didn't want to risk any further contamination of oils...I don't want to have to do this again. When I was nearly to this point, I did put it back together...it looked pretty weird with the other blued parts...but I was tempted to look into clear coating this and leaving it....but I knew I would catch hell for it....more than I am going to get for cold bluing this. In that regard, if it sucks...it isn't hard to remove...no where near what I went through with the damn paint anyway. :)

Anyway, the link below will take you to pics of a very naked lady....that is the same age as my mother. That statement alone will prevent me from clear coating it...I assure you. rofl

http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/slideshow/1949%20Russian%20SKS/In%20The%20White
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on January 06, 2017, 05:43:14 PM: Dude, awesome job on that paint removal! thumb1 She looks Beautiful!

I take it it was rattle can and not some high end epoxy (duracoat) stuff?
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 06, 2017, 06:08:50 PM: Quote from: running-man on January 06, 2017, 05:43:14 PM
Dude, awesome job on that paint removal! thumb1 She looks Beautiful!

I take it it was rattle can and not some high end epoxy (duracoat) stuff?

Thanks!

I am not entirely sure, it was much easier to remove from the bolt carrier for sure, but the stripper I use is pretty awesome at eating away at stuff. The plastic scraper I used for the bulk of it got left in a puddle of it, and became a puddle of it's own.

I think there may have been some leftover BBQ in a couple of spots...or the stripper just didn't want to stick there long enough to do the work. The bead blasting may have done more harm than good in causing the paint to be removable...as it cleaned up REAL nice, luckily it wasn't primed or it might have been a lot harder to remove. The area where the bayo lug was ground off is shiny as a mirror...so slick I am surprised the paint didn't just fall off.

Whatever the paint was...it wasn't the cheap stuff. I certainly am a little low on elbow grease currently...as I worked for it for sure!

I will be needing a new cleaning kit, every single caliber brass brush I have is now shot. And they were placeholders for guns I have yet to purchse. banghead1
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Power Surge on January 06, 2017, 11:30:52 PM: Can you look into the brake with a light and tell if the barrel has been threaded? It's very possible that someone installed those set screws with green loctite which is super high strength sleeve retainer. You'll probably have to carefully heat it to get them out. And hopefully it wasn't also used on the threads if the barrel was threaded.

For the life of me, I can't find a Krink brake online with set screws like that....
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: padams8888 on January 07, 2017, 04:28:47 PM: Have you put heat to it yet? Use the shortest length Allen socket and some heat.....they should pop loose.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 10, 2017, 01:20:10 AM: Quote from: Power Surge on January 06, 2017, 11:30:52 PM
Can you look into the brake with a light and tell if the barrel has been threaded? It's very possible that someone installed those set screws with green loctite which is super high strength sleeve retainer. You'll probably have to carefully heat it to get them out. And hopefully it wasn't also used on the threads if the barrel was threaded.

For the life of me, I can't find a Krink brake online with set screws like that....

When I look in there all I can see is that if it is threaded...it is all the way on...perfectly. I don't see much though...it looks like a very dirty crown butted up flush with the inside of the brake. My vision and poor lighting make that impossible to confirm. I haven't been able to find one anywhere like that either.

Quote from: padams8888 on January 07, 2017, 04:28:47 PM
Have you put heat to it yet? Use the shortest length Allen socket and some heat.....they should pop loose.

I tried a hair dryer heating the whole thing up for about five minutes...no dice.
I tried a soldering iron on each individual head...no dice.

I twisted the allen wrench slightly even, before IT stripped. The head of the bolt is approximately the same wear wise, and likely will be the last to come out...now.

cry1

The trigger group and the magazine were sold two days earlier......

cry1 cry1 cry1 cry1

In the mail though, I picked up a decent laminate stock/handguard along with a period correct trigger group from our friends in Canada.
I also ordered an unissued period correct sight leaf direct from Mother Russia. So I have that going on for me.

The rebluing went well, the muzzle brake from hell at least matches quite nicely now...especially since it is looking more and more like a permanent resident. The photos seem to reveal some splotching, while some of that might be very faint...most of it is differences in the metal that is left on the gun...causing the light to fluctuate. It does look much more even in person. Despite that...I probably will hit it again after this cures a bit longer... It looked really strange after the first and second coats of bluing....as if it were covered in graphite dust. Super shiny black...almost blinding. Fortunately the third reduced it enough to look normal. This was my first whole gun bluing experience...small parts are so much easier.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3211.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3211.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3212.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3212.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3213.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3213.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3214.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3214.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3215.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3215.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3218.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3218.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3219.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3219.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3220.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3220.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3221.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3221.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3222.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3222.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3224.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3224.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3226.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3226.jpg.html)

Waiting on the mail and hanging out with some of her Chinese brethren...pay no attention to the /906\ below her....that one is going through a phase. She is trying to make nobody notice she has an ism. The audacity of going around...leaving her gas tube all uncovered...hoping you don't notice her dimple.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3230.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/Back%20in%20the%20Black/DSCN3230.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 10, 2017, 02:31:33 AM: Interesting job thumb1 ... but the brake has driven me about retard... rofl

Things to try...now keep in mind "muzzle brake", corrosive ammo use was possible..

Quit dicking with toys and heat the bastard already, you got a gas stove, kerosene heater, gas water heater something with some real "heat".. when you heat it, spit on it, when it goes from just running off to bubbling, jumping around and sizzling off quick, thats usually hot enough, you should still be well below killing metal temper temps, do not get all jiggy and go and change the color of any of the metal.. thumb1 no making it glow..

RM mentioned the dreaded red threadlock...if it was threadlocked....typically the highest temp it will handle is 450 F, it will soften at high temps, which is usually below temper destroying temps of most steels. Also, sometimes acetone or super glue solvent could weaken it if you keep it soaked in it.

For penetrating oil, try a 50-50 mix of acetone and automatic trans fluid or acetone and diesel or kerosene.. heat, hit, soak with oil, cool, repeat. Throw that can of WD-40 out your front door, use it for a target, spray it on wood to start your wood stove.. rofl2

For sanity sakes on loose or questionable allen head sockets, use the tightest fitting allen wrench, higher quality, the better, even if you gotta kind of beat it in, again it could be standard or metric, something one must know when declaring war on a bastard seized up hunka crap, and use something use like valve grinding compound, even a fine grease coating with some fine sand/ash/fine polishing powder to enhance the bite of the bit, if it won't move, see the penetrating oil line above.. :)

Now if you have rounded it, you may find another bit that will fit really tight, even a torx could still fit, just beat it in with a hammer which will shock it via hammer strike. or....

Well I'll stop now... the violence I was going to say.... is inappropriate.. remember I am a former truck mechanic, trucks and trailers require a certain level of violence at times, you have to coerce them in to your way of thinking rofl2 rofl2 chuckles1

Send it to me :o I will break that brake :) it's just old junky mild steel and it was installed, therefore..... it can be "un"installed.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 10, 2017, 03:21:00 AM: rofl

I wasn't sure exactly how much was too much, but I think I have a better grasp on it....now. :)

It does seem to be in between sizes of wrenches...if there was something in between metric and standard, this would be it. I have several sets of allens, the oldest and cruddiest one, with the least grip, seems to be the best fit, otherwise I can only get close...but not quite right IMO.

I am actually starting to like the damn thing. I really want to shoot it with it on there just to see what effect it might have on holding the muzzle still...but single digit temps and the frozen cloud dust falling about makes a shooting trip both dangerous and actually like it might not be fun despite how much fun it should be.

I have gotten myself involved in an auction for a straight eared collar, just to keep myself motivated now...I will be clearing off a spot next to the stove and will give it another try. I generally break things when they won't do my bidding, but I am trying very hard to restrain myself with this...By this time tomorrow, at the very least I will have singed off all my knuckle hair.

I am already way ahead of schedule and budget on this thing, I planned on dragging it out over the winter, but it has kind of occupied nearly every waking moment. This was an unplanned project...I was told I had to put any SKS purchases on the back burner of the broken stove out in the yard after my Sporter purchase a couple (well, almost a couple) months back. This project though somehow has gotten wifey's attention, and she is quite fond of the gun...which is a little weird for her. This is a good thing though, as I was fine with stopping at ten, but now that there is the bonus baby, it just doesn't mentally work for me, so now what...a dozen, well in that case...a baker's dozen, that would be all fine and dandy, but that's 13...we can't have that now can we...and fourteen is just stupid, so the next logical stopping point is 15. Damnit, more than one crate's worth...less than two. Maybe now is the time to just attempt at least one of each nationality available.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 10, 2017, 03:52:59 AM: ....I actually came to this thread for a reason before getting all digresstipated.

Tonight I won another auction for what I thought might be a candidate for when/if the spike comes my way. It had crappy pictures, but appeared to have the original finish, which was quite light for a Russian, and instead of one reinforcing pin, there were two, an inch or so apart where there normally would have been one, right were a haphazardly cut spike cut might have ended...pics don't show it. I was laying low on this as it sat at 9.99 until this morning. I still sniped it for a song, but I didn't even want to contact the seller at risk of them posting better pics and running up the price. The forend seemed a little bit more slender than normal for a Russian, but the pictures didn't really do anything but lend to that hope rather then help confirm it. It didn't seem to have quite the profile for a normal Russian stock, nor did it have the super slender look one sees on the half dozen or so of these you see decent pictures of on the web. It seems, almost in the middle of the two...maybe I am just seeing things.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152380817677?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

If anything...a blade stock was on my want list for future projects, the two pin thing just seemed neat in and of itself...who knows, maybe its Cuban chuckles1

This is the stock she most likely will be wearing in a week or so...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322382032968?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I probably overpaid, but it had the handguard, which appears to match nicely...the ones I have seen that don't look abhorrent to me. Hopefully they send a nice box along with it and all it's goodies...it will almost be like getting a new gun...just spaced out over several installments...from various nations. I tried my Spanish receiver cover mount, but the darn thing was too loose, unfiled. In order to add another nation to this thing...I might just have to put an Albanian spike on to pretend to be the real deal for awhile.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 10, 2017, 02:00:18 PM: Also in desperate times.. cut the allen wrench off square to expose a new grip with unrounded edges.. thumb1
Both Snap-On and Mac hate this...but you do what you gotta do >:(

As for a between size...some metric sizes throw in a fricken half.. you can have a 4.5 and 5.5mm, standard sizes like to throw in a 1/32 or worse a 1/64 in.. why not a 1/128 or a 1/256 guys, I mean spice it up some.. And I have never figured it out.. why is there a T27 Torx size, from T10 to T60, its the weird one....

The smaller sizes is where the half a mm and the 1/32-1/64 sizes come in.

If your really brave, spit it, with a cutoff wheel, cut through the brake retaining collar towards the muzzle, cut about 95-97% through it, stop just before you hit the barrel/muzzle end, stop leaving about .1 of material, then stick the edge of a good cold chisel in to the cut and hit it with a hammer. It should spread the collar, or spread enough to release it enough to tell if it is threaded on. :)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 10, 2017, 04:21:27 PM: If I cannot get them to budge after stovetopping it I am not going to get much crazier than that on my own. I would rather not ruin the brake only to find that it is threaded...and already... 'ruined'....but functional. I may try the chemical concoctions you mentioned earlier if all else fails. It would be nice to not mess up the bluing by resorting to unignited napalm...but since my garage is separate from my house...

If I can get one screw out, and discover it is threaded...I am going to stop there, as there may be no point in going any further without wrecking what is left of the poor thing. With my luck, the other Krink I have without the fancy tune up job will have a different thread pattern, that is if the threads wouldn't be thrashed from my overzealous attack upon it. Once all the stuff in the mail arrives...I will have a complete gun, I would like it to be functional.

My defeat may not mean no bayonet though...I COULD perhaps arc weld a new Chinese bayo lug on, skillfully destroying another FSB to do so, allowing for a Yugoslavian bayonet handle to be used on an Albanian spike...then throw the whole thing on a lathe and mill out a groove on the Krink for the bayonet handle to lock into. At that rate, why not go balls out crazy and make it a left handed side folder. The groove would go all the way around anyway...not that I am left handed...but lefty stuff brings a premium. I wonder if I could squeeze in an ambi safety lever on the old style Russian FCGs.... rofl

Before I let my mind wander further...I am gonna go heat up the stove and see what happens.
If I don't reply in a timely manner, it will be due to the healing skin grafts from my butt onto my fingertips.
They do exfoliate first....Don't they?
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 10, 2017, 04:47:19 PM: Why you think I'm not a mechanic any longer... rofl2 air tools, torches, plasma cutters, hydraulic pullers, presses, power tools, jacks, ceiling hoists, frame straighteners, trailer benders, fork lifts, 4 foot pipe wrenches, great big hammers.. thumb1

give me enough time I can destroy an anvil with a rubber mallet, tear a concrete slab up with a q-tip. thumb1 Now I tell...errr, instruct people how to break stuff... rofl2

Make a jig and hook a 25 ton gear puller to that brake, fire up the torch and cut it off, use a plasma or air arc cutter, stick it in a 100 ton press and give it a gentle nudge.

Good luck....remember hair and fingernails grow back, cuts heal as do burns, even bones heal.. thumb1 Most any injury can be fixed with a dab of super glue, a thick coating of Neosporin, a shop rag, use a clean one, diesel takes the Neosporin off, and wrap it with a few wraps of electrical tape... :) Use white thread for stitches, dyes can cause an infection and it's winter, so you have plenty of ice for a burn thumb1
Now if the bone pops out, blood spurts or it breaks out in real flames and gets crispy, well ahh.. I never quite made it that far, guess thats what 911 is for.. :o

Jimmy has had way to much coffee today rofl chuckles1 rofl2
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on January 10, 2017, 05:34:29 PM: My kitchen smells like a chicken coop....a big commercial coop.

But....

I got the bastard.

It is NOT threaded dance2 It does have some circular dings from the ratcheting on they did...but it is off. Hopefully this gunk didn't seep into the FSB much, as it is crusted on all the way around it. Hopefully frying it caused a chemical change that makes it not so bleeding close to welding. The nice thing is, they at least left it in the white before putting the brake on and spray painting it.

I can now safely say this gun is now 99% devoid of paint...don't ask where the 1% is...I ain't tellin'...and it is up to the forensics people to find it, should they purchase it. And since it isn't for sale...that little tidbit will go with me to my urn. My urn with a Krink for a handle.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/SKSFILES/DSCN3243.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/SKSFILES/DSCN3243.jpg.html)

I haven't decided if I am going to taint today's victory by trying to remove the FSB right away. Based on the roll pin in one hole and the oversized original in the other, post neuterment...It's safe to say that someone went as far as to remove the pins in the past...destroying one of them. I don't see any of the damage akin to what I have done to these things trying to remove them in the past...so either it slid right off....(yeah, right)...or they had the proper pulling apparatus....or they gave up and just chopped the thing off right in front of it....the terror it must have felt. :))

I may hold off until I have the replacement in front of me...because, if this thing just slips off...I have a Chinese FSB sitting right in front of me that I may be tempted to slide into place...which will inevitably get stuck on, canted no less and we will have to start this all over again.

I am now contemplating if it is really 'Bubba' putting the brake onto my 92 Sporter, which is...technically a Bubba...right? It might keep me from putting a proper FSB (it is just sitting there...taunting me) on it and making the world's first blade bayo short gas system thumbhole. Thoughts? :)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 10, 2017, 06:04:46 PM: :) See, it wasn't that hard. fart1

Keep going... don't let a little victory stand in your way thumb1 ... relish the taunting and tempting ideas.. The imagination is a terrible thing to waste.

Hit the kitchen with some of that freebreeze stuff.. and savour the mix of floral highlights with just a hint of chicken crap.. Smells like spring time here in the hills. rofl
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Boris Badinov on January 16, 2017, 09:48:04 PM: Not sure how big the shows get in your vicinity, but I've seen hundreds of bayonets at the local big shows near me. Mostly spikes, some para spikes and the occasional blade. Mostly Yugos, and then Chinese blades, and possibly an occasional Soviet blade I assume. But I'll keep an eye out for the unicorn matte black spike. It always makes the shows more interesting to have something unique to look for.

EDIT: Oh, wait. That ferrule looks like it's made for a blade. Noted.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on January 16, 2017, 11:26:19 PM: Quote from: Boris Badinov on January 16, 2017, 09:48:04 PM
Not sure how big the shows get in your vicinity, but I've seen hundreds of bayonets at the local big shows near me. Mostly spikes, some para spikes and the occasional blade. Mostly Yugos, and then Chinese blades, and possibly an occasional Soviet blade I assume. But I'll keep an eye out for the unicorn matte black spike. It always makes the shows more interesting to have something unique to look for.

EDIT: Oh, wait. That ferrule looks like it's made for a blade. Noted.

Blued SKS spike bayonets are difficult to find, blued Russian SKS spike bayonets are very very difficult to find.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on January 16, 2017, 11:27:30 PM: And Russian SKS spike bayonet is not matte black
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Boris Badinov on January 18, 2017, 01:27:04 PM: Quote from: pcke2000 on January 16, 2017, 11:27:30 PM
And Russian SKS spike bayonet is not matte black

Was not aware of this. Never seen one up close. One day...hopefully.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on January 18, 2017, 02:04:03 PM: Quote from: Boris Badinov on January 16, 2017, 09:48:04 PM
Not sure how big the shows get in your vicinity, but I've seen hundreds of bayonets at the local big shows near me. Mostly spikes, some para spikes and the occasional blade. Mostly Yugos, and then Chinese blades, and possibly an occasional Soviet blade I assume. But I'll keep an eye out for the unicorn matte black spike. It always makes the shows more interesting to have something unique to look for.

EDIT: Oh, wait. That ferrule looks like it's made for a blade. Noted.

If your finding Yugoslavian M59 bayonets and aint buying them... What the hell is wrong with you... Those are like finding hens teeth, and your just letting flip fundage slip through your fingers. :)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on January 20, 2017, 05:57:02 PM: Quote from: Boris Badinov on January 18, 2017, 01:27:04 PM
Quote from: pcke2000 on January 16, 2017, 11:27:30 PM
And Russian SKS spike bayonet is not matte black

Was not aware of this. Never seen one up close. One day...hopefully.

Tra-la!
No they are not matte, but i like them anyway.
(https://s30.postimg.org/9mzljo731/IMG_3769.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9mzljo731/)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on January 20, 2017, 07:40:00 PM: Quote from: newchi on January 20, 2017, 05:57:02 PM
Quote from: Boris Badinov on January 18, 2017, 01:27:04 PM
Quote from: pcke2000 on January 16, 2017, 11:27:30 PM
And Russian SKS spike bayonet is not matte black

Was not aware of this. Never seen one up close. One day...hopefully.

Tra-la!
No they are not matte, but i like them anyway.
(https://s30.postimg.org/9mzljo731/IMG_3769.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9mzljo731/)

both Russian spike and blade bayonets are supposed to be blued.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 09, 2017, 02:32:47 PM: A bit of an update....grab a beverage and a chair, this got long winded...photos will follow later, I don't feel like dealing with photobucket after writing this tome over the last couple of days.

My camera with a working flash has bucked the kicket...so now I have to wait for sunny days to get shots of my progress. I do have several photos to post, it just sucks now because a lot of the proof stamps are a lot more visible when I can switch between flash and no flash. Especially on the stuff that is in the white...This has been compounded by my vision, I am back in glasses on an iffy prescription...using the 'puter has been difficult for the eyes lately...so I have been hesitant to post.

Here is the progress since I left off....

I got a laminate stock for it....and it is nice, but it doesn't fit worth a damn...the recoil lug is too far forward, and nearly allows slippage out of the stock retaining ferrule. Fortunately in the opposite direction of recoil, so it can be made to work...but never properly.

Around the same time I also bought a poorly listed Russian stock that looked thinner in the bayonet area than a normal Russian stock, and it has two reinforcement pins...roughly in the proper location, but about a quarter inch apart. It seems like there may have been some wood added to it in the bayonet cut area...a raised portion exists between the tip of the bayonet cut and the mag cutout that I haven't seen on other Russian stocks, the grain is either hiding this from being obvious....or is causing my mind to 'think' it is there. It is also very light in color compared to typical Russians...it is a lot closer to the amber the Chinese used...but with that same smeared shellac look Russians are known for. It's safety lever cutout is very rounded and smaller looking. It has a rather large refurb [\] stamp on the right side of the butt and on the left three XXXs above a four digit serial. There might have been a star there...but I cannot consistently see one...only a tiny < that might be a scratch. It is rather pretty...but, I discovered it is also sporting a pretty decent crack at the charging side recess...so, it will patiently sit waiting to see if I can either learn more about it, or convert it (back?) to a spike. It fits much better than the laminate, but still isn't quite right.

Moving on...I also purchased an early 50 hand etched receiver cover, as it is likely the closest I am going to find anytime soon for a cover. After ordering it, I saw that the seller was selling the matching trigger group....mine had yet to arrive from him, so I arranged an exchange. I then made the stupid move of asking if he had anymore of that gun laying around. Turns out, he had the force matched stock, the gas tube and piston. Unfortunately...not the mag. So I ordered a period correct mag from him too...which will be the only non matching part between the 49 and the donor 50. Somewhere in this melee of packages coming from Canada, I got the obscure lightening cut/straight eared front sight block...completely stripping and refinishing it, installing it on the gun...and then realizing I was an idiot noticed the lightening cuts...fortunately, that happened at the same time as the trigger exchange...so it went back.

All of that arrived yesterday....the stock is still ill fitting, the gas tube was almost unfitted to any SKS...and had to be filed to fit from what appeared to be almost untouched metal at the business end. It didn't take much, and it still has less of an angle ground for the retaining lever than any of my other tubes. The trigger group for 49's also seem to be thinner at the rear, which caused me to have to file a tad off of the retaining 'spring' otherwise there wasn't enough clearance for the group to fully lock into place...which was blocking the safety at about 50%. I wish I didn't have to remove anything from the 49. but shaving down the inside of that spot on the trigger group looked about impossible to pull off with my tools. I shouldn't have done it, and I regretted every pass of the file, but in order to retain the matching status of the donor parts it seemed like a good idea at the time...sure enough...my thoughts about it were correct, and an earlier version of this version of trigger group popped up on eBay....and that recess is deeper on the older trigger frames....just my luck.

The magazine was interesting. Aside from being Canadian and instantly required modification to remove the stupid pin off of the follower, I wasn't expecting much other than the pain in the ass it is to remove paint from the insides of those damn things. I had already stripped and beutified a horrible rust bucket of a mag for this gun...so I kind of thought I knew what to expect. While stripping it of it's paint...inspection marks started popping out that were completely invisible before. There are three inside the bottom of the floorplate alone! There are a couple on the sides too, that were not visible either. The really cool thing I discovered, and would like to check with you guys if you have one to compare....is that the last two digits of the mag's serial were stamped towards the front of the mag, once on the body where the four welds are, and then again on the very front of the follower. Both of these are as large a font as could fit on these pieces, yet wasn't visible until considerable scrubbing with acid brought them out. I would like to think this is a further truncation of the full serial on these...as it would be a huge coincidence that 23 would be stamped on these two parts, and the serial also ends in 23. I would imagine that this was a major pain in the neck for them to do long term, and was likely phased out early on....but, those are a couple more data points that could be used to identify a 100% original gun. I didn't risk taking this one fully apart once the pin appeared to mean business...far more than the previous mag. I didn't want to screw it up trying to strip the inside as (almost) well as I did before. Since the mag isn't matching to either gun this was spawned from...I didn't care to get full on Smithsonian when restoring it. One other thing I noticed is that the metal quality used is far greater than whatever nation made the previous mag...in the white, it shone like a mirror. Since rebluing...it looks brand new....aside from a tiny hole the size of a pencil lead in the follower. It even shows a tightness at the hinge I haven't seen before...it's snug!

OK....had an interruption while writing this...and I also have stripped and reblued the gas tube now. What worried me at first has proven to be correct. The removal of the paint and refinishing process has nearly eradicated the electro penciled serial on the tube. It seems as if the paint is hard and brittle enough that the impact of the penciling flaked off a large swath of the paint. The actual serial meeting metal is the same as seen on Chinese through the bluing. The stripping of the paint knocked down the edges so much that after bluing it is only faintly visible, in the proper light, held at a specific angle while hopping up and down on one foot. For this reason, despite the 'marriage' of the 50's tube and piston for the last 67 years...I am going to use the 49's piston. I can't think of a better place for the union of these two guns to 'consumate'. chuckles1

I did all of that at night, so I didn't bother taking photos. Aside from major quality differences, and a slight difference in the profile where the front top of the tube meets the wood, the process of doing the Chinese one compared to the Russian were similar...so I may include those when it comes to my next barrage of photos.

The Russian sight ladder has been on quite an adventure, coming from Siberia...off to Moscow, then landing stateside in NY...shuffled to Billings Montana...a hop, skip and a seven hour drive from me....only to vanish into thin air somewhere between us...registered mail no less. banghead1

I have a replacement lined up, and it actually is a good thing because I am getting so much cool information from this guy...further excuse for dialogue with this fellow is welcomed. I only worry that my impatience may lead to me seeking out the strong possibility that I might be able to get the complete RSB from the 50 too...with the ladder included. I hope I am wrong that it's availability is a reality, but I have had this gun complete in so many ways minus the sight ladder since week two in this endeavor. There is a period correct ladder off of one of my Chinese that currently has a scout mount that has been just sitting on the shelf next to me...taunting me....but I look at the pristine bluing, and keep telling myself it is much easier to snap them in than it is to pop them back out....so I have been fighting the urge.

Since the main point was to get a bayonet back on this thing...I shall address that again. The misadventure of the FSB issues on this continue. Despite what I would have thought to be the biggest pain in the neck, the removal and installation actually on and off the barrel, that has been amazingly easy in every regard. The fact that I have now stripped and refinished THREE of them is getting a little old...yet that isn't the problem either. The damn thing is loose enough that you cannot get the thing to go on without becoming canted while driving in the second pin. It is actually kind of tough to get the first pin started without it spinning. I have tried a few different methods, and have another couple in mind to get it right. I am close this time...close enough that if you weren't looking for it, you likely wouldn't notice...but I notice and its bothering the hell out of me. I am going to try driving the pins in from the opposite direction and see if that helps. I am pretty sure that they had the pins at slightly different locations, and it seems to me, but only after seeing a few examples close enough, that the 49 and early 50 had the FSB butted up to the step in the barrel diameter that you usually see a gap between. It leaves very little room (I almost said wiggle room...but it has plenty of that) to play with. The depth into the barrel seems to be shallower on the 50 FSB vs. the scores in the barrel, I think that is where my canting problem resides. I just hesitate to whack this thing straight...I am really hoping that never in my lifetime will I ever have to strip and refinish another one of these bastards....they are not fun.

On to the bayonet. My research has been sending my head in circles...and I read almost everything in a Russian accent now. It kind of reminds me of that Clint Eastwood movie Firefox where he flies the stolen Russian jet with his mind and has to think in Russian. Only without the 80's movie soundtrack and a lot more cussing....at least I 'think' its cussing. Basically, every sound you make while clearing one's throat of a particularly thick hocker...that happens sometimes. It has to be mental profanity.

I have now seen enough of the 49 spike to know originals are not reworked M44 bayonets, but I am 99% sure they simply adjusted the tooling to work and they were born of the same idea....and quite likely the same equipment. I am having a hard time with the translations from Russian message boards but it seems as if they have either narrowed down either the SKS or the M44 spike as actually being of Polish origin. It is kind of funny...they seem to have similar heated discussions about this same topic there. What is cute is how much they seem to covet the Chinese spike...and how expensive they are to obtain there. There are folks there comparing the M44 to the Chinese, and to the actual Russian SKS spike...and it seems that folk over there are converting the M44s over for use on SKSs too...again, it is hard to be sure through the translation...but that was what I am getting from it. From what I have seen, it seems the whole spike is slightly lightened compared to an M44...maybe 95% of one in mass. There also sounded like a guy stating that in the past at 'gatherings' (gun shows?) there would be buckets of the SKS spikes....sigh. I have seen enough of them cut to within the last thread of being able to withstand their own weight without bending that I would gladly accept one of those to complete this....with a spike.

The gun currently is sporting the most gawdawfulfugly period correct polished blade on earth...one side is heavily pockmarked in a couple of spots the other side looks like there are a couple of regions of miniature half cooked Jiffy Pops under the chrome. I have had this for years, and never expected to put it onto a gun where it would be correct for it to be there. The bayonet choice is likely going to be ultimately what I can locate. Since it has the blade cut stock retainer, I am going to shoot for a blued blade if I can ever find one, I doubt I am going to find a spike stock...so I would have to make one, which seems blasphemous...but would be necessary to deal with the large stock retainer...unless I could locate a small one...which is a tall order in and of itself...maybe even more so....nearly needle in a haystack in more ways than one. I do have an M44 bayonet that I want to get machined (any takers out there?) to work. If I have to settle on the stock being faux, the bayonet might as well be too...and I have the materials to do it, rather than hope against hope I can locate three unicorns grazing on the side of a rock candy mountain, in the fall, so the leaves from the money tree are just there for the raking.

I likely will have two versions of this, one with the 50 stock, and whatever blade I settle for since that is what it is set up for...and another version set up with one of the other stocks that will be for a spike bubba version....at least that way I can live up to my credo...sorta.

I am still on the fence about whether this ever had a spike or not, I see some information stating the blade started in late 49 and others that it started in early 50...either one leaves margin for error on other features being 100% year specific. Based on what I have experienced in fitting nearly every donor part from an early 50, I am convinced at this point this is a 49 for sure...despite not having the original cover, and the ambiguity of previously set in stone component parameters being locked into a specific year. The difficulty involved in fitting the cover makes me think that even the early 50 differs considerably in very difficult to see ways from the 49. I had to file considerably from several surfaces to get a fit...and it is still extremely tight. The curve where the cover meets receiver on the front left side is totally wrong too. Since the 49 is an EO and the early 50 is an Ey and the fact that alphabetically makes sense in both languages is a factor or not weighs on my mind too...it might make absolutely zero difference...but still. After seeing several heavily refurbed 49 spikers that kept the small ferrule, I am doubting mine was changed at a refurb, otherwise more would likely have been done...like the whole barrel. I had considered that perhaps when encountered with the small stock ferrule the original owner removed everything and swapped it out....since the pins for both the retainer and gas block had been replaced with roll pins one might have thought that, but the leftover evidence in the nooks and crannies in both locations from the media blasting seem to indicate an attempt may have been made to remove them, that was later abandoned. AND you have to take into account the blob evolution and how mine seems to fit into a timeline regarding its lack of one.

I am leaning towards considering this restored with a blued blade and the early 50 parts until suitable certifiable 49 parts come along....which reminds me, I have to look for a proper 49 mag without the stud for the spring too...talk about a tall order.

As it currently stands...

1949 EO series host:
Receiver, barrel, RSB, stock retainer, gas block, carrier, complete bolt, and pistons and springs and period correct levers and things

1950 Ey series donor:
Receiver cover, gas tube, trigger group, force matched stock, and if the fight between good and evil continues to this very day, possibly a sight ladder and spare gas block to go along with the spare gas piston this gun provided.

Unknown period correct donations:
KA series magazine, FSB, bayonet, bayonet handle, cleaning kit

Abominable mention:
NC Star cleaning rod...help me...I am in hell....I assume the closest thing I could get to correct would be a genuine m44 rod right?

Honorable mention:
KA series force matched (once) dark laminate stock and the four digit mystery stock...both possibly ill fated.

Schultz's top secret mention:
an ill fated M44 bayonet

Made possible from loans from:
1965 /26\ trigger group, thanks for holding it all together in a pinch
Unknown Chinese two piece gas tube, thanks for keeping the piston holstered
Unknown Chinese one piece gas tube, thanks for keeping the piston holstered, and the practice.
Unknown magazine, thanks for keeping the mystery alive and for being as loose and easy to work with as a drunk prom date.
1978 /26\ inverted takedown stock...thanks for making Grandpa listen to disco...that was funny for a couple of days.

Donations from this host include:
Norinco receiver cover scope mount, never a moment when I didn't think you had my back...enjoy life on that 64 /26\ bubba buddy!
Williams peep sight, found a new home on my first project gun a 0226 Choate Drag thing...freeing up that damned sight ladder it was borrowing to just taunt me from the shelf....argh!
Krinkesque muzzle device: Now looks slicker than goose excrement through a silver horn on my 92 Sporter.
The original neutered FSB may end up on a bayonet free build down the road, it doesn't deserve to go out to pasture just because someone Californicated all over it.
The orange Tapco sight post was donated to my 1966 steel Schlitz garbage can, and made a nice ping when it hit bottom.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on February 09, 2017, 03:13:04 PM: Quote from: Justin Hell on February 09, 2017, 02:32:47 PM
The really cool thing I discovered, and would like to check with you guys if you have one to compare....is that the last two digits of the mag's serial were stamped towards the front of the mag, once on the body where the four welds are, and then again on the very front of the follower. Both of these are as large a font as could fit on these pieces, yet wasn't visible until considerable scrubbing with acid brought them out. I would like to think this is a further truncation of the full serial on these...as it would be a huge coincidence that 23 would be stamped on these two parts, and the serial also ends in 23. I would imagine that this was a major pain in the neck for them to do long term, and was likely phased out early on....but, those are a couple more data points that could be used to identify a 100% original gun.

...

Since the 49 is an EO and the early 50 is an Ey and the fact that alphabetically makes sense in both languages is a factor or not weighs on my mind too...it might make absolutely zero difference...but still.

...

I am leaning towards considering this restored with a blued blade and the early 50 parts until suitable certifiable 49 parts come along....which reminds me, I have to look for a proper 49 mag without the stud for the spring too...talk about a tall order.

Wow Justin, quite the tale there! :o Hopefully you're having a good time with her though?

1) Mag stuff is a new observation to me. Sounds like it would be difficult to verify if they are indeed that hard to see. Sure seems like the mag would be a completed subassembly long before it got put onto a gun, i.e. long before it got a S/N stamped. Maybe if they did a total refurb to pull everything apart for cleaning and inspection, but I have a hard time coming up with a scenario where this would be done to a brand new mag unless the workers assembled the mag from piece parts right alongside the new gun being built. It could be the 23's and the S/N ending in 23 are a coincidence too...

2) EO vs. EУ prefix might as well be AB vs ЮЯ. I see definite patterns of first and second letter reuse within a year, but its definitely not AA, AБ, AВ, AГ and so on...

3) Not sure what you're talking about with the stud for the spring on the '49 magazine? Got a photo that shows the difference?
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:13:59 AM: I read about the magazine stud here: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575

It is a pretty interesting thread.

The 23 thing is interesting, and it does seem to be a PITA to do...the why is confusing too...it isn't like you would think anything but the whole mag would be replaced...perhaps they weren't sure about what would be a refurbable portion at that point yet. Maybe there was a little more personal fitting going on in the beginning. It seems unlikely that it was done at refurb, if anything...it may have been done pre-assembly for some reason. If it is a coincidence, it is kind of over the moon. I really would like to see if anyone else can see it perhaps under the paint...I really wasn't looking for numbers there...and the paint was on thick. There still was plenty of scrubbing after I discovered the numbers...I didn't see the follower mark until a considerable time scrubbing away at the body. Unless someone has gone to the trouble of doing what I have done, it is doubtful anyone has noticed. I suspect the early mags like this that escaped the paint are few and far between. It may be visible to someone not already halfway done scraping it clean though...it is in probably the filthiest spot on even the cleanest gun. It's like a very deep naval in there.

Whatever gun this came from must have been a beauty, the mag is seriously as new as new can be underneath the paint. It didn't exhibit any of the metal treatment I saw on other parts during stripping...it may have been stamped and painted in the white. All the other refurbed parts had kind of a dull park like finish to the metal, I assume some kind of etching process for roughing up the metal for better adhesion. It is pretty thin and steel wool makes quick removal of it....unless you do a chemical plating reaction with the acid and a brass brush...which turns it golden.

I think that might be the mystery of the golden bayonet, (also discussed in that link) if during the finishing process they used an acid along with brass brushes, this effect could be caused by something as simple as that....perhaps usually they used steel brushes, and substituted out brass...ran a run of bayonets through it, some even getting final polishing before the error is noticed. This metal prep process used before painting could be also a same/similar process before chroming the bayonets...later matte bayonets might have just had the chroming process skipped....

All speculation that came about from doing all of this by hand, and never quite duplicating the process...I did eliminate the part where each part turned gold, by either using paint stripper exclusively with the brass...no goldening, with acid and steel, no goldening....acid and brass, it looked like I electroplated it with iron pyrite if that is even possible. I had thought that perhaps first came the grey layer, and then the golden...but by eliminating brass, I think I put that to rest. The bayonets might just have been experimental and that was why so many small variants exist. I don't believe the soaked in cosmoline theory at all. This one seems more likely. Whether it was on purpose or just an anomally remains to be determined.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on February 10, 2017, 09:09:05 AM: Quote from: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:13:59 AM
I read about the magazine stud here: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575

I don't believe the soaked in cosmoline theory at all. This one seems more likely. Whether it was on purpose or just an anomally remains to be determined.

Do you mean the gap under the rear lug vs no gap in section k? It's certainly a good page, he has a few errors in there and his dates for features are sometimes off by a year or even two, but all-in-all quite good.

I think the dried cosmo hypothesis is pretty much dead in the water at this point. M08 had a very good writeup running some testing on a golden bayo. The coating is an intended plated finish and is likely a chromate coating or some type of zinc plating. Need to get one on a mass spec and find out exactly what it is.

I'd be surprised if it was a simple acid reaction, chromed bayos seem to be the norm and I just don't see acid etching a hard chrome surface like that. Perhaps the gold bayos aren't hard chromed? Maybe P32 will chime in and let us know what he thinks? thumb1
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on February 10, 2017, 10:47:16 AM: I always assumed the golden bayonets were
1, a bare fresh new bayonet was treated somehow and became a browny goldy color.
2, a silver bayonet was treated somehow and came out a wishy washy, varying color because it didnt react the same to the coating underneath.

But the variation in color might be how hard the guy on the roughing up wheel pushed in certain areas?

The second is the only one i have seen in a store and i think thats how the cosmoline stain idea came about. Because it looks like a regular matte silver one is hiding underneath.
Like the photos in c and d.
dntknw1
I like the idea and now i need super high res photos of every semi golden bayonet to figure this out.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on February 10, 2017, 02:49:33 PM: Quote
On to the bayonet. My research has been sending my head in circles...and I read almost everything in a Russian accent now. It kind of reminds me of that Clint Eastwood movie Firefox where he flies the stolen Russian jet with his mind and has to think in Russian. Only without the 80's movie soundtrack and a lot more cussing....at least I 'think' its cussing. Basically, every sound you make while clearing one's throat of a particularly thick hocker...that happens sometimes. It has to be mental profanity.

I have now seen enough of the 49 spike to know originals are not reworked M44 bayonets, but I am 99% sure they simply adjusted the tooling to work and they were born of the same idea....and quite likely the same equipment. I am having a hard time with the translations from Russian message boards but it seems as if they have either narrowed down either the SKS or the M44 spike as actually being of Polish origin. It is kind of funny...they seem to have similar heated discussions about this same topic there. What is cute is how much they seem to covet the Chinese spike...and how expensive they are to obtain there. There are folks there comparing the M44 to the Chinese, and to the actual Russian SKS spike...and it seems that folk over there are converting the M44s over for use on SKSs too...again, it is hard to be sure through the translation...but that was what I am getting from it. From what I have seen, it seems the whole spike is slightly lightened compared to an M44...maybe 95% of one in mass. There also sounded like a guy stating that in the past at 'gatherings' (gun shows?) there would be buckets of the SKS spikes....sigh. I have seen enough of them cut to within the last thread of being able to withstand their own weight without bending that I would gladly accept one of those to complete this....with a spike.

Interesting... but.. on the Polish theory. The Polish M44 went into production somewhere between '50-'51 depending on who says it and where you look. After the Russian SKS spike, even possibly after the Russian spike to blade transition.
Excerpt from Terence Lapin, author of The Mosin Nagant Rifle, again, just his theory.
Quote
It is assumed the Poles manufactured these carbines on Soviet machinery that was relocated into Poland. One reason for this assumption is that Soviet M44 production ceased in 1948 and the machines used to manufacture these carbines was no longer needed. The theory is that the Soviets took a year, 1949, to relocate the tooling and the Poles to undertake production.

The M44 production ended in 1948 in Russia, which corresponds with the above theory. The tweaking and adjusting of current Russian equipment I can see as plausible. And it does open the door for did "all" the equipment go to Poland, or was it split and some went to China, Hungary and Romania.
Quote
The Chinese looked to their new friends to the North, the Soviet Union, for assistance in the matter. As the doctrine of the "Human Wave" was shared by both nations, a bayonet would be an essential item on any carbine to be issued. The Soviet Union of course offered the Model 1944 Carbine as a logical solution . The Soviets were in production of the SKS at the time, but they did not want to share this new development with the Chinese. It is thought that Soviet machinery was sent to China for commencement of Type 53 production. The facts also seem to suggest this was also done in Eastern Europe as the Model 1944 Carbine production also began in Poland, Hungary, and Romania during the same time frame. The movement of the Soviet machinery allowed the Chinese to produce the Type 53 independently, which was important to both Chinese national pride and the self-sufficiency of China. This also allowed the Soviets to aid their Chinese ally without giving away a large amount of weapons technology.

On the flip side, it''s not difficult to remove the SKS spike, melt the steel and re-forge a blade, especially in factories with full metal working/production capabilities, they also made tractors and all kinds of other crap. Also, it's not far fetched to think they had spikes left from M44 production, that just so happened to end in '48, which is when the SKS "supposedly" went into full production, simply re-machine them and adapt it for use on the SKS. Just my .00002 worth :)

Or :o is there some really juicy tidbits of info floating around on "insert nation here" M44 that makes all the above out dated and null and void.. think1 :)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 03:01:08 PM: Here are pics of the two digit tagging on the follower and mag body...along with a pic of the original serial....the fonts match, I think they are even the same size.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/SKSFILES/DSCN3342.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/SKSFILES/DSCN3342.jpg.html)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/SKSFILES/DSCN3343.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/SKSFILES/DSCN3343.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 03:35:49 PM: Quote from: Greasemonkey on February 10, 2017, 02:49:33 PM
Quote
On to the bayonet. My research has been sending my head in circles...and I read almost everything in a Russian accent now. It kind of reminds me of that Clint Eastwood movie Firefox where he flies the stolen Russian jet with his mind and has to think in Russian. Only without the 80's movie soundtrack and a lot more cussing....at least I 'think' its cussing. Basically, every sound you make while clearing one's throat of a particularly thick hocker...that happens sometimes. It has to be mental profanity.

I have now seen enough of the 49 spike to know originals are not reworked M44 bayonets, but I am 99% sure they simply adjusted the tooling to work and they were born of the same idea....and quite likely the same equipment. I am having a hard time with the translations from Russian message boards but it seems as if they have either narrowed down either the SKS or the M44 spike as actually being of Polish origin. It is kind of funny...they seem to have similar heated discussions about this same topic there. What is cute is how much they seem to covet the Chinese spike...and how expensive they are to obtain there. There are folks there comparing the M44 to the Chinese, and to the actual Russian SKS spike...and it seems that folk over there are converting the M44s over for use on SKSs too...again, it is hard to be sure through the translation...but that was what I am getting from it. From what I have seen, it seems the whole spike is slightly lightened compared to an M44...maybe 95% of one in mass. There also sounded like a guy stating that in the past at 'gatherings' (gun shows?) there would be buckets of the SKS spikes....sigh. I have seen enough of them cut to within the last thread of being able to withstand their own weight without bending that I would gladly accept one of those to complete this....with a spike.

Interesting... but.. on the Polish theory. The Polish M44 went into production somewhere between '50-'51 depending on who says it and where you look. After the Russian SKS spike, even possibly after the Russian spike to blade transition.
Excerpt from Terence Lapin, author of The Mosin Nagant Rifle, again, just his theory.
Quote
It is assumed the Poles manufactured these carbines on Soviet machinery that was relocated into Poland. One reason for this assumption is that Soviet M44 production ceased in 1948 and the machines used to manufacture these carbines was no longer needed. The theory is that the Soviets took a year, 1949, to relocate the tooling and the Poles to undertake production.

The M44 production ended in 1948 in Russia, which corresponds with the above theory. The tweaking and adjusting of current Russian equipment I can see as plausible. And it does open the door for did "all" the equipment go to Poland, or was it split and some went to China, Hungary and Romania.
Quote
The Chinese looked to their new friends to the North, the Soviet Union, for assistance in the matter. As the doctrine of the "Human Wave" was shared by both nations, a bayonet would be an essential item on any carbine to be issued. The Soviet Union of course offered the Model 1944 Carbine as a logical solution . The Soviets were in production of the SKS at the time, but they did not want to share this new development with the Chinese. It is thought that Soviet machinery was sent to China for commencement of Type 53 production. The facts also seem to suggest this was also done in Eastern Europe as the Model 1944 Carbine production also began in Poland, Hungary, and Romania during the same time frame. The movement of the Soviet machinery allowed the Chinese to produce the Type 53 independently, which was important to both Chinese national pride and the self-sufficiency of China. This also allowed the Soviets to aid their Chinese ally without giving away a large amount of weapons technology.

On the flip side, it''s not difficult to remove the SKS spike, melt the steel and re-forge a blade, especially in factories with full metal working/production capabilities, they also made tractors and all kinds of other crap. Also, it's not far fetched to think they had spikes left from M44 production, that just so happened to end in '48, which is when the SKS "supposedly" went into full production, simply re-machine them and adapt it for use on the SKS. Just my .00002 worth :)

Or :o is there some really juicy tidbits of info floating around on "insert nation here" M44 that makes all the above out dated and null and void.. think1 :)

It is entirely possible that the translation bungled the intent of the author perhaps saying the M44 bayo he was using was from a Polish M44 or maybe they collectively discovered that his bayonet was Polish... Their sentence structure and general mindset in communication is so different it really gets hard to determine for sure the intent. I am sure that internet speak comes into play and that really throws a wrench in the works of the translators.

It is interesting learning more about the history of the short pants Mosin. What I get from that last quote is that China indeed got equipment from Russia....but not necessarily for the other countries? I can just imagine the guys showing up for work, arriving at their station only to see the equipment missing. Maybe the golden and polished black ones were just shakedown errors from training disasters. chuckles1
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on February 10, 2017, 04:02:52 PM: Quote
Their sentence structure and general mindset in communication is so different it really gets hard to determine for sure the intent.

Word to that, ive been trying to learn russian for a few months and good god is it funky.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:19:21 PM: Quote from: running-man on February 10, 2017, 09:09:05 AM
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:13:59 AM
I read about the magazine stud here: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575

I don't believe the soaked in cosmoline theory at all. This one seems more likely. Whether it was on purpose or just an anomally remains to be determined.

Do you mean the gap under the rear lug vs no gap in section k? It's certainly a good page, he has a few errors in there and his dates for features are sometimes off by a year or even two, but all-in-all quite good.

I think the dried cosmo hypothesis is pretty much dead in the water at this point. M08 had a very good writeup running some testing on a golden bayo. The coating is an intended plated finish and is likely a chromate coating or some type of zinc plating. Need to get one on a mass spec and find out exactly what it is.

I'd be surprised if it was a simple acid reaction, chromed bayos seem to be the norm and I just don't see acid etching a hard chrome surface like that. Perhaps the gold bayos aren't hard chromed? Maybe P32 will chime in and let us know what he thinks? thumb1

I haven't actually seen one...but I assume they mean the stud riveted under the floor plate to retain the spring. I was guessing that it was just free floating in there, perhaps held in just by the cup on the follower and pressure. If it was flawed, it might have not lasted long. The HM1949 example shows the rivet there... This was just one thing I picked up on to keep an eye out for. It is something probably everyone would overlook...or was perhaps taken out of service at refurb so perhaps they are limited to as issued 49s, that multitude of those out there. :) I am going to keep an eye out now to see if I can spot one. I am curious if there was some other method of retaining them on the follower...it seems like a no brainer that eventually it would jiggle out without some kind of way to hold it in place. The only mention of it on the page is in Section 8 part 11. These might be insidiously obscure.

Regarding the plating, whatever caused mine to turn gold was likely what I was doing...but perhaps I was thinking the dark layer under the paint was yet another layer...but was the same coating, just with it's reaction to the paint. The goldening may have not occured until all of the paint was out. It was something I wouldn't notice as it happened...only in the better lit area where I rinsed them off....by the time I could see the paint was gone...I had transferred the acid etched brass to the surface of the coating....later removed by steel wool.

Another interesting thing is that the metal used for the covers seems completely different than used anywhere else. It appears to have had the same treatment done to it before painting...but it is much darker and grainy...like cast iron but lighter in color. When reblued with other parts of the same gun...it took half as much for more result. The rest of it doesn't seem to be able to darken as much as it did. It may just be the texture sucking up the highlights...it is pretty close in bright uniform light. It was the first part of the 50 I got in, and the first I worked on...I was really concerned about that...as it was much harder to strip. Fortunately, the trigger group was scrubbed, reserialed, reblued, and later painted with the bluing intact, I had to strip the bluing to get it to match, but at least they didn't get too crazy with the paint on the internals of it...I returned the favor....only pulling the hammer, sear and mag release. The gas tube I want to say was new to the gun and added and penciled at a refurb...likely it's most recent. The coating was much less apparent, and I don't recall fighting with any residual bluing underneath it.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:27:43 PM: Quote from: newchi on February 10, 2017, 04:02:52 PM
Quote
Their sentence structure and general mindset in communication is so different it really gets hard to determine for sure the intent.

Word to that, ive been trying to learn russian for a few months and good god is it funky.

I was on an unrelated chat board and a guy tried to explain how Russian language is somewhat in an altered tense for general speaking than most languages. Whereas one language tends to refer everything based on a potential future vs. based on a set past...or something like that. Trying to imagine it hurts. I have Rosetta Stone...I just haven't bit the bullet and gotten started on it. I was on the fence on Chinese or Russian to try first...Russian seems more interesting...and certainly easier to read. The wife works with who she refers to as a cute Russian coed...maybe that might inspire me.....lessons. :)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on February 10, 2017, 05:30:12 PM: Quote from: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
I haven't actually seen one...but I assume they mean the stud riveted under the floor plate to retain the spring. I was guessing that it was just free floating in there, perhaps held in just by the cup on the follower and pressure. If it was flawed, it might have not lasted long. The HM1949 example shows the rivet there...

Is this the photo of HM1949 you're thinking of?
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/HM1949_bayo_groove.jpg)

I thought I found one w/o the rivet MB28:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/MB28_bayonet_bottom2.jpg)

but then you get a different angle in a different light and it sure looks like a rivet that's been ground to within an inch of its life maybe...or maybe it's just an optical illusion:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/MB28_bayonet.jpg)

pcke's OП1667 might be the best candidate, but I honestly can't tell from this photo:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/O1667_magazine.jpg)

Barring those last two being possibilities, I can't find a concrete example w/o that rivet, heck even this Chinese 24 mil /26\ has it, it obviously worked well:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T26/24224003_magazine.jpg)

It's interesting that http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575 says there are only two versions of the magazine:
Quote
11.Magazine ( 2) fixed 10 rounds. early 1949 without stud for mag spring, late 1949 to 1956 with stud.

Yet he totally leaves out the '49-'52 locking lug gap and the '53-'58 non gapped versions even though he calls them out earlier in the thread.
(https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/12/P10901571280x720-1.jpg)

I suspect there should be 3 magazine versions if the stud/non stud is truly a '49 feature (though since no photos have turned up of one, you gotta wonder....)

Good stuff Justin, way to keep working things. thumb1
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on February 10, 2017, 05:38:09 PM: Quote from: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
Regarding the plating, whatever caused mine to turn gold was likely what I was doing...but perhaps I was thinking the dark layer under the paint was yet another layer...but was the same coating, just with it's reaction to the paint. The goldening may have not occured until all of the paint was out. It was something I wouldn't notice as it happened...only in the better lit area where I rinsed them off....by the time I could see the paint was gone...I had transferred the acid etched brass to the surface of the coating....later removed by steel wool.

Chromate conversion coating (aka "alodine") is commonly used for paint prep nowadays; very nice surface for good paint adhesion. Can be dipped, immersed, brushed on, etc. Might be what you saw underneath the paint.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 06:26:48 PM: Quote from: running-man on February 10, 2017, 05:30:12 PM
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
I haven't actually seen one...but I assume they mean the stud riveted under the floor plate to retain the spring. I was guessing that it was just free floating in there, perhaps held in just by the cup on the follower and pressure. If it was flawed, it might have not lasted long. The HM1949 example shows the rivet there...

Is this the photo of HM1949 you're thinking of?
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/HM1949_bayo_groove.jpg)

I thought I found one w/o the rivet MB28:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/MB28_bayonet_bottom2.jpg)

but then you get a different angle in a different light and it sure looks like a rivet that's been ground to within an inch of its life maybe...or maybe it's just an optical illusion:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/MB28_bayonet.jpg)

pcke's OП1667 might be the best candidate, but I honestly can't tell from this photo:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/O1667_magazine.jpg)

Barring those last two being possibilities, I can't find a concrete example w/o that rivet, heck even this Chinese 24 mil /26\ has it, it obviously worked well:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T26/24224003_magazine.jpg)

It's interesting that http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575 says there are only two versions of the magazine:
Quote
11.Magazine ( 2) fixed 10 rounds. early 1949 without stud for mag spring, late 1949 to 1956 with stud.

Yet he totally leaves out the '49-'52 locking lug gap and the '53-'58 non gapped versions even though he calls them out earlier in the thread.
(https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/12/P10901571280x720-1.jpg)

I suspect there should be 3 magazine versions if the stud/non stud is truly a '49 feature (though since no photos have turned up of one, you gotta wonder....)

Good stuff Justin, way to keep working things. thumb1

Same gun, different photo...referring to HM1949.
I am actually surprised, as I used that comparison photo to send to my 'guy' to see if he had any of the gapped mags...I just noticed that photo isn't even close to what I got. I wonder if the one with only the hole under the lug rather than the gap is the non lug one?

I think those other photos you posted are what we are looking for. This tidbit didn't sink in for me until a couple days ago, I must have skimmed over it...and I just wasn't looking for it. I think the lug is a cylinder with a built in pin that gets peened over...if it was sanded down, it would fall out and leave a pin hole like the 5 round pin left behind. I could be wrong, I made no attempt to remove it on any mag I have worked on. I can only imagine how much fun it would be to try assemble one without the lug...keeping all those holes lined up for a single pin with unseated spring tension seems like it would have been much harder to pull off on the one mag I have fully disassembled.

This has been a fun experience. I feel as if I have learned about as much about Russians in the last six or so weeks than I had about Chinese in the the 20ish years of owning them, and the last six or seven years of intense scrutiny. Gotta love reverse engineering...but I am the kind of guy who would rip a Blu Ray to 36550 floppy disks if you gave me the software and the disks. :)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on February 10, 2017, 10:36:37 PM: Justin, thank you very much. Magazine rivet is definitely another detail I had never paid attention to until I saw your post.

BTW, it looks like my 1949 does not have the rivet.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on February 10, 2017, 11:02:35 PM: RM, please check pictures of (1) 1948 SKS s/n 2B51; (2) 1949 SKS s/n ЕУ41; (3) 1949 SKS s/n PO1657; (4) my 1949 SKS.

These 4 do not look like they have (or obvious signs of) the rivet, or outside part of the rivet has been modified to be flushing with the magazine surface.

(5) 1949 SKS s/n ЛМ1041 (possibly a 1950 refurb with a 1949 receiver cover); (6) 1950 SKS s/n ФВ2737; (7) 1951 SKS s/n РГ3741. These three have the rivet.

And the samples in my own collection and I have seen online with manufacture year in and after 1952 have the rivet.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on February 10, 2017, 11:12:50 PM: Regarding the page: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575

It has lots of useful info.

Interestingly, if you take a close look at the spike bayonet 1949 sample(s) shown in Section 3.f. and Section 6, you'll see the stock looks wrong.

Some spike bayonet 1949's sold in Canada is a real myth.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: running-man on February 10, 2017, 11:29:04 PM: Quote from: pcke2000 on February 10, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
RM, please check pictures of (1) 1948 SKS s/n 2B51; (2) 1949 SKS s/n ЕУ41; (3) 1949 SKS s/n PO1657; (4) my 1949 SKS.

These 4 do not look like they have (or obvious signs of) the rivet, or outside part of the rivet has been modified to be flushing with the magazine surface.

(5) 1949 SKS s/n ЛМ1041 (possibly a 1950 refurb with a 1949 receiver cover); (6) 1950 SKS s/n ФВ2737; (7) 1951 SKS s/n РГ3741. These three have the rivet.

And the samples in my own collection and I have seen online with manufacture year in and after 1952 have the rivet.

(1) Ahh I totally forgot about the '48 prototype! Looks unriveted to me:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1948_prototype/2B51_bayo_groove.jpg)

(2) I have no record of ЕУ41. :(

(3) PO1657 is not yet in my database but I do have the photos waiting for categorizing. It's also an electro pencilled mag so I hesitate to draw too many conclusions all by itself, but taken with the rest of the evidence I think you're likely right about it. Photo is a bit dark and it's got a layer of paint on it. I don't see any rivet, ground or otherwise:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1949_Tula/PO1657_magazine_brightened.jpg)

Yours (4) is obviously the golden goose. You being able the handle it, look at it, etc. I think proves that these aren't one off anomalies but it was an actual design feature change somewhere around 1949. I think that MB28 example I posted above doesn't have the rivet either now that I can look at it on the big computer screen, metal looks totally pristine, not like a ground rivet head.

I think I'm convinced that (5) ЛМ1041 is a mid '50 with a '49 cover based on the long receiver cover takedown lever tab, restamped receiver cover, and the 45° gas block.
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/1950_Tula/M1041_magazine.jpg)

I don't have (6) ФВ2737 or 7) РГ3741 :(

I like the milsurps.com Russian SKS45 page quite a bit actually, it just hasn't kept up with the times and I find info on it outdated or in the worst instances, simply wrong. There are lots of SKS-isms up in Canada that are iffy at best. Up until a while ago, they took all receiver covers as gospel. If it said '54 on it, by golly it *was* a 1954 SKS. Most have come around it seems, but there are still many who just don't believe you regardless of the proof you offer.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 11, 2017, 12:03:14 AM: Quote from: pcke2000 on February 10, 2017, 11:12:50 PM
Regarding the page: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575

It has lots of useful info.

Interestingly, if you take a close look at the spike bayonet 1949 sample(s) shown in Section 3.f. and Section 6, you'll see the stock looks wrong.

Some spike bayonet 1949's sold in Canada is a real myth.

If there is a pin in it...it isn't a 49 spiker stock. The butts on a 49 stock also look more Mosin like (boat paddleish) from several photos I have seen...those may or may have not been from trial guns...or phased out early on. Some seem to be normal...but, often you cannot tell if they were refurb stocks or not, so I am not sure if all the spike stocks had funky butts. :)

I doubt I would have noticed this many little things unless I was crazy enough to strip paint off of nearly ever single part of both a 49 and a 50 to make a coheseive looking gun. I am still really tempted to see if I have two scores for pins under my stock ferrule...but I think trying to get it off beyond the couple of whacks I gave it with a bubba stock and it not budging would be pushing my luck. Maybe if I locate an original small one to potentially replace it with. Otherwise it will remain a mystery until I have a good reason to mess with something that isn't broken.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on February 11, 2017, 12:36:25 AM: Quote from: Justin Hell on February 11, 2017, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: pcke2000 on February 10, 2017, 11:12:50 PM
Regarding the page: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=17575

It has lots of useful info.

Interestingly, if you take a close look at the spike bayonet 1949 sample(s) shown in Section 3.f. and Section 6, you'll see the stock looks wrong.

Some spike bayonet 1949's sold in Canada is a real myth.

If there is a pin in it...it isn't a 49 spiker stock. The butts on a 49 stock also look more Mosin like (boat paddleish) from several photos I have seen...those may or may have not been from trial guns...or phased out early on. Some seem to be normal...but, often you cannot tell if they were refurb stocks or not, so I am not sure if all the spike stocks had funky butts. :)

I doubt I would have noticed this many little things unless I was crazy enough to strip paint off of nearly ever single part of both a 49 and a 50 to make a coheseive looking gun. I am still really tempted to see if I have two scores for pins under my stock ferrule...but I think trying to get it off beyond the couple of whacks I gave it with a bubba stock and it not budging would be pushing my luck. Maybe if I locate an original small one to potentially replace it with. Otherwise it will remain a mystery until I have a good reason to mess with something that isn't broken.

Agree! I found this unique feature too. Plus original 1949 stock is significantly narrower at the front part (under the gas tube).
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on February 11, 2017, 09:51:23 AM: Quote
Some spike bayonet 1949's sold in Canada is a real myth.

I would never buy a 1949 spike unless it was at a department store/cabellas etc where it was the same price as all the others.
1949 blades are not hard to find, spike bayonets are not hard to find, Suckers who will pay double once you combine the two are not hard to find either.
>:(
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 11, 2017, 10:01:20 AM: Quote from: newchi on February 11, 2017, 09:51:23 AM
Quote
Some spike bayonet 1949's sold in Canada is a real myth.

I would never buy a 1949 spike unless it was at a department store/cabellas etc where it was the same price as all the others.
1949 blades are not hard to find, spike bayonets are not hard to find, Suckers who will pay double once you combine the two are not hard to find either.
>:(

In that case, I would like a blade AND a spike, and if you have a 49 cover holding a door open somewhere...I'm your huckleberry. :)
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on February 11, 2017, 10:09:14 AM: i saw two 1949 blade sks at the local sporting goods store last year, that has since closed :( Spike bayonets are on ebay, and occasionally at gun shows (i always forget which one is russian vs chinese) But if you see a 1949 with a spike bayonet, its magically double in price. And i just dont know enough to tell if it really had the spike or someone changed it.
Kinda like the fake mosin snipers up here, but those i have a fairly good handle on.
I will look in the hardware store today, they have a bunch of every-single-part-renumbered sks's that i never examine closely.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 11, 2017, 10:25:24 AM: Quote from: newchi on February 11, 2017, 10:09:14 AM
i saw two 1949 blade sks at the local sporting goods store last year, that has since closed :( Spike bayonets are on ebay, and occasionally at gun shows (i always forget which one is russian vs chinese) But if you see a 1949 with a spike bayonet, its magically double in price. And i just dont know enough to tell if it really had the spike or someone changed it.
Kinda like the fake mosin snipers up here, but those i have a fairly good handle on.
I will look in the hardware store today, they have a bunch of every-single-part-renumbered sks's that i never examine closely.

A Russian SKS spike and a Chinese spike are completely different. Chinese bayonets are a dime a dozen....my wife came running in the room the other day and said 'Quick hand me a bayonet, my back itches!' That is how common the Chinese bayonet is...at least at my house.

I did have the option of grabbing the M44 spike, but I opted for the Chinese....it was within arm's reach. :)

A complete 49 with a spike should bring more than double the price.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Justin Hell on February 11, 2017, 10:54:21 AM: Quote from: pcke2000 on February 10, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
RM, please check pictures of (1) 1948 SKS s/n 2B51; (2) 1949 SKS s/n ЕУ41; (3) 1949 SKS s/n PO1657; (4) my 1949 SKS.

These 4 do not look like they have (or obvious signs of) the rivet, or outside part of the rivet has been modified to be flushing with the magazine surface.

(5) 1949 SKS s/n ЛМ1041 (possibly a 1950 refurb with a 1949 receiver cover); (6) 1950 SKS s/n ФВ2737; (7) 1951 SKS s/n РГ3741. These three have the rivet.

And the samples in my own collection and I have seen online with manufacture year in and after 1952 have the rivet.

Considering the early 50 is Ey1336 (my cover is not scrubbed and restamped) I am very interested in seeing this gun! Perhaps Ey is the crossover point? If that is the case, then all 49s should not have the rivet/stud...but not all would have the deep trigger group retaining spring well...thing/area. The plot thickens...these two guns were meant to hump!
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: pcke2000 on February 11, 2017, 01:01:39 PM: Quote from: newchi on February 11, 2017, 10:09:14 AM
i saw two 1949 blade sks at the local sporting goods store last year, that has since closed :( Spike bayonets are on ebay, and occasionally at gun shows (i always forget which one is russian vs chinese) But if you see a 1949 with a spike bayonet, its magically double in price. And i just dont know enough to tell if it really had the spike or someone changed it.
Kinda like the fake mosin snipers up here, but those i have a fairly good handle on.
I will look in the hardware store today, they have a bunch of every-single-part-renumbered sks's that i never examine closely.

that could be the reason why you think Russian SKS spike bayonet is easy to find.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on February 11, 2017, 02:50:48 PM: Quote from: Justin Hell on February 10, 2017, 03:35:49 PM

It is interesting learning more about the history of the short pants Mosin. What I get from that last quote is that China indeed got equipment from Russia....but not necessarily for the other countries? I can just imagine the guys showing up for work, arriving at their station only to see the equipment missing. Maybe the golden and polished black ones were just shakedown errors from training disasters. chuckles1

Maybe the fellow who tried these experiments or who lead the failed training disasters on the bayonets was offered a alternative lifestyle in the scenic nether reaches of Siberia, charged with destroying Soviet state property. I'm sure the fellows who showed up for work with there equipment missing, they might have had to make tractor engine pistons or something, there was always something to do, they might have even made golden bayonets out of revenge. rofl2
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on February 11, 2017, 04:48:46 PM: Quote
that could be the reason why you think Russian SKS spike bayonet is easy to find.
oh, quite possibly. i count the sides at the gun show and cant remember how many by the time i get home. senil1
Although, its much less common in my area to see even a norinco sks.
The hardware store had 7 sks, 6 frankenpinned and black painted badly (think stevie wonder with a 6 inch brush) Interestingly one was an 54 Izhevsk in a Tula stock, a backwards N letter gun, and the paint was coming off of the receiver cover on one with bare metal underneath. But everything matched.
The other store had much nicer slightly painted ones with one part mis matched on all of them. But they were locked in a cabinet, i didn't look further.
What happens if you try and remove the paint? Does the blueing survive?
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on February 13, 2017, 09:58:32 AM: is the sks spike bayonet and the ak47 spike bayonet the same thing? size etc?
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: Greasemonkey on February 13, 2017, 02:21:38 PM: Quote from: newchi on February 13, 2017, 09:58:32 AM
is the sks spike bayonet and the ak47 spike bayonet the same thing? size etc?

Nope....a bayonet for an Ak is shorter overall, about 12 inches total length vs about 15 inches for SKS/M44/Type53. The attachment shank/collar is different also. Only thing a Chinese SKS and Ak bayonet share is the triple groove design.
Title: Re: 90 degrees of Bubba
Post by: newchi on February 13, 2017, 07:28:01 PM: well, you were right, i looked at all the sks bayonets i could find in canada today and even the ones listed as russian were 3 groove.